Chain shunting
- tom_tom_go
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Chain shunting
This setup might add operational interest to a line in the garden (ignore crap music):
- Peter Butler
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Re: Chain shunting
Nifty work getting the van out of there but how do you get it back in?
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?
Re: Chain shunting
With plenty of very strong people Peterβ¦.
ROD
Life is so easy when I run my trains.
https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11364
https://www.youtube.com/@fairywoodlightrailway
Life is so easy when I run my trains.
https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11364
https://www.youtube.com/@fairywoodlightrailway
Re: Chain shunting
I'm wondering if there was another capstan at the head of the siding. Not quite the same but this video suggests two capstans are involved:
Rik
Rik
- tom_tom_go
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Re: Chain shunting
I saw that video after posted the first one Rik and thought the same thing.
- Peter Butler
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Re: Chain shunting
Wonderful stuff, loved both videos. Is the 'real life' one shot at Bristol docks?
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?
Re: Chain shunting
Capstan shunting and chain shunting aren't quite the same thing though.
The capstans are themselves powered ( hence the metal access plates around it) so you could have one at the back end of the 'alley'.
For chain shunting it in using what we can see, the chain would need to go from the loco, round the external vertical pulley, all the way to the far end of the alley, round another pulley and back to the wagon on the turntable! I suspect that there must be a winch of some sort in the warehouse/factory at the far end.
The capstans are themselves powered ( hence the metal access plates around it) so you could have one at the back end of the 'alley'.
For chain shunting it in using what we can see, the chain would need to go from the loco, round the external vertical pulley, all the way to the far end of the alley, round another pulley and back to the wagon on the turntable! I suspect that there must be a winch of some sort in the warehouse/factory at the far end.
Philip
Re: Chain shunting
Just deleted my reply because Philip beat me to it, and explained it more eloquently!
Phil
Sporadic Garden Railer who's inconsistencies know no bounds
My Line - https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11077
Sporadic Garden Railer who's inconsistencies know no bounds
My Line - https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11077
Re: Chain shunting
I like that idea. I might keep it for my "yet to be built" line. I did see a line with a chain worked incline with a winding house at the top. Sadly the owner remodelled the line and never completed it.tom_tom_go wrote: βThu Apr 26, 2018 10:11 pm This setup might add operational interest to a line in the garden (ignore crap music):
Ian
Ian
Re: Chain shunting
Yes, Bristol.Peter Butler wrote: βFri Apr 27, 2018 10:03 am Wonderful stuff, loved both videos. Is the 'real life' one shot at Bristol docks?
From 0:43 they are hauling the wagons back using the same powered capstan, suggesting the rope must pass around another unpowered capstan at the far end. My thinking is that a similar arrangement might have been used to pull the wagon into the siding when chain shunting in the first video. I appreciate the motive power is different but the principles are broadly similar.
Rik
Re: Chain shunting
Rik's explanation makes sense to me.ge_rik wrote: βFri Apr 27, 2018 10:47 amYes, Bristol.Peter Butler wrote: βFri Apr 27, 2018 10:03 am Wonderful stuff, loved both videos. Is the 'real life' one shot at Bristol docks?
From 0:43 they are hauling the wagons back using the same powered capstan, suggesting the rope must pass around another unpowered capstan at the far end. My thinking is that a similar arrangement might have been used to pull the wagon into the siding when chain shunting in the first video. I appreciate the motive power is different but the principles are broadly similar.
Rik
Ian
Ian
Re: Chain shunting
Great video of Bristol Docks, itβs another wonderful thing about the workings of Railways and how there was and still are I expect, some brilliant engineers around.
ROD
Life is so easy when I run my trains.
https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11364
https://www.youtube.com/@fairywoodlightrailway
Life is so easy when I run my trains.
https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11364
https://www.youtube.com/@fairywoodlightrailway
- Peter Butler
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Re: Chain shunting
Oops..... red face time here, just watched the video again and noticed the title clearly describes the activity at Bristol..... just shows how observant I am!
In defence I was watching the movement more than the words...... silly me.
In defence I was watching the movement more than the words...... silly me.
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?
- Soar Valley Light
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Re: Chain shunting
Point of order here chaps.
I think chains and ropes are being confused. I've only ever seen capstan shunting performed with ropes and I'm pretty sure the same applies to inclined planes (aka rope worked inclines - the clue is in the title!). Chains have a much greater tendency to snag. If they snag on themselves going round a capstan the incoming end risks going back round and being pulled back on to the pulley, with the consequent risks to all involved.
The problem with ropes is the risk of them snapping under heavy strain and the whiplash that follows. I remember when I worked at the Coal Board being told stories of decapitations underground resulting from snapped ropes! I believe it was this risk that resulted in chains being used for TOWING in some locations. It was certainly a chain used with shunting horses.
As Phil stated, capstans were generally (but not always) powered. This was handy as they avoided the need for any sort of motive power - a handy thing in the warehouses they were often located in. Towing definitely requires independent motive power, usually a loco, or originally more often a horse and latterly sometimes a road vehicle.
All these operations pose a greater or lesser risk to the staff (and horses!) involved. These are primarily from being hit by snapped ropes or getting tangled up in ropes or chains when any slack occurs and being dragged along or into things. For these reasons they were always performed by experienced men and only where specially authorised, the risk being recognised by management.
The only thing more dangerous was prop shunting - but that's another story!
Andrew
I think chains and ropes are being confused. I've only ever seen capstan shunting performed with ropes and I'm pretty sure the same applies to inclined planes (aka rope worked inclines - the clue is in the title!). Chains have a much greater tendency to snag. If they snag on themselves going round a capstan the incoming end risks going back round and being pulled back on to the pulley, with the consequent risks to all involved.
The problem with ropes is the risk of them snapping under heavy strain and the whiplash that follows. I remember when I worked at the Coal Board being told stories of decapitations underground resulting from snapped ropes! I believe it was this risk that resulted in chains being used for TOWING in some locations. It was certainly a chain used with shunting horses.
As Phil stated, capstans were generally (but not always) powered. This was handy as they avoided the need for any sort of motive power - a handy thing in the warehouses they were often located in. Towing definitely requires independent motive power, usually a loco, or originally more often a horse and latterly sometimes a road vehicle.
All these operations pose a greater or lesser risk to the staff (and horses!) involved. These are primarily from being hit by snapped ropes or getting tangled up in ropes or chains when any slack occurs and being dragged along or into things. For these reasons they were always performed by experienced men and only where specially authorised, the risk being recognised by management.
The only thing more dangerous was prop shunting - but that's another story!
Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"
Re: Chain shunting
"Merger talks between British supermarket chains Sainsbury's and Asda are at an "advanced" stage."
Now THAT is real chain shunting!
Now THAT is real chain shunting!
Philip
- Soar Valley Light
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Re: Chain shunting
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"
Re: Chain shunting
Like Andrew, that is so funny.
ROD
Life is so easy when I run my trains.
https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11364
https://www.youtube.com/@fairywoodlightrailway
Life is so easy when I run my trains.
https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11364
https://www.youtube.com/@fairywoodlightrailway
- dewintondave
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- tom_tom_go
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Re: Chain shunting
I reckon a Mamod traction engine taken apart plus some gearing could do that?dewintondave wrote: βSat May 05, 2018 5:54 am How about a steam powered capstan in our shunting yards?
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