Tram engine 'Ellie'

[Big Jim]

I am all for any kind of enterprise in this hobby. I would be very interested in a kit that just needs basic tools to complete as I think would many others be.

[Busted Bricks]

In kit form only assembly, soft soldering and painting would be required. My dream is for people to be able to build a simple live steam loco for less than £150. It would probably have to be meths fired to reach that price point but it is acheivable.

Some suggest people no longer want simple manual locos which is why the top of the range locos scale from Roundhouse and Accucraft do so well. However I think there should be an option for every wallet. I'm probably a bit of an idealist in that respect. I have other commercial uses for the machine tools I'm buying so it's a fairly low risk endeavour on my part.

[Big Jim]

Meths fired or gel fired at that price would be a steal. Less hassle than gas burners (one less pressure vessel to think about).
There does seem to be a bit of snobbery about regarding stuff at the cheaper end of the market and with some kit stuff in general. I was talking to someone at the Exeter show who was quite dismissive of the small scale producers who are knocking out wagon kits for around £10 each. Two pints of Best Bitter and a bag of scratchings cost nearly that these days. This chaps comment was they weren't that detailed....... What do people expect for a tenner?

Small, cheap and cheerful is what brought many people into this hobby years ago and is still attractive. However some individuals need to understand that a sub £200 engine is not and never will be a Roundhouse Darj.

[Busted Bricks]

Each to his own. I have no problem with expensive, scale stuff. I think there should be something to suit all budgets and interests.

I'm not a fine scale modeller, I just like to run steam engines. I think it is fairly obvious from my previous foray into garden railway kits where I position myself in the market

[Big Jim]

Indeed.
One salient point is that more people can afford and justify the purchase of a £150 loco than a £2500 one.

[FWLR]

Indeed.
One salient point is that more people can afford and justify the purchase of a £150 loco than a £2500 one.

Agree Jim, most loco’s again are out of the ordinary person’s reach with just one income coming in. It is just like the rest of the other gauges, far too expensive for most.

[SimonWood]

Not having a huge amount of time (or skill) I'm still finishing up my Konrad cab, so not about to embark on an Ellie or anything else right now; but I am tempted to give something like this a go as a future project. I am a real beginner, but it certainly looks achievable - having a kit for the frames is a nice kick-start.

its could be as little or as much as you want. Chassis with no engine, engine, boiler kit, ready made boiler etc.

I like the idea of this. I like the idea of building something where you have some scope to customise as you go, low cost means low risk which is important - it frees you up to try things, it's as much about learning as the finished project.

[Busted Bricks]

My approach is to develop a set of standard components and then design locos and stationary steam engines around these parts. I should warn you straight away - the engine will be an oscillator. That helps keep cost down which is what I aim to do.

As mentioned earlier, I cannot give a timeline for when things will be availble. This is something I work on when time and funds permit me to do so. Unless someone wants to invest in the venture (highly unlikely) then progress will be slow-ish. At the moment my attention is turned towards engine design and how I can optimize it for CNC production. There are some bits my automatic lathe can't make.

I keep banging on about acquiring a fiber laser cutter. That is key to the success or failure of this venture. I'm not buying it solely with the aim of making loco parts on it - that is probably what it will spend the least amount of time doing. However being able to do design&prototype work in-house saves money in the long run. It's expensive to have just one set of parts for a prototype cut if I have to farm it out. A laser will cut really fast in thin mild steel and the material itself is cheap (1mm steel cost less than birch plywood!). I like steel for bodywork as it takes paint better than brass. The way our locos are pampered I don't see rust as much of an issue. If need be, the laser will also cut thin brass.

[tom_tom_go]

I am up for moving away from brass body's to steel.

Maybe you could look at producing body kits for Accucraft and Roundhouse locos.

[Big Jim]

Ditto regarding steel vs brass.
I am no metallurgist but I have noticed that my stock of brass that I acquired from my father and was all produced pre 1970 is much nicer to work with than the stuff I am buying today. It is easier to work and seems to take a soldered joint better.
I may be barking up the wrong tree though.

[Busted Bricks]

I am up for moving away from brass body's to steel.

Maybe you could look at producing body kits for Accucraft and Roundhouse locos.

That is certainly a possibility but will probably require purchasing the locos to work from and I'm not sure I will be able to afford that.

[Ripon]

Just noticed on Camden’s site that a body kit is now available for Ellie. Did some work on the engine parts today but may have got too far ahead of myself because the bearing holes in the engine mount are going to need adjusting for my self cut gears (if I manage to make them that is). More pictures next week.

[Big Jim]

Good news,
I am sorry that your build thread has been a bit hijacked

Yes please regarding the pictures.

[Busted Bricks]

Yes, sorry for the hi-jack.

My copy of the book has arrived. The engine reminds me a lot of the first ever oscillating engine I built. Simple, but ran well.

[Ripon]

Quick trip to second hand toolshop this morning and found a bit of brass to make the flywheel. Faced off to width and set up on a mandrel for turning to size. The same mandrel will be used for taking off the sharp edges on the wheel flanges.

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[Ripon]

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Fywheel finished, sharp edges taken off and a small recess for appearance. Most of the rest of the parts for the engine. Piston is left oversize and will be turned to fit once it is attached to the piston rod, differs from the book and will just havea couple of grooves and no "O" ring.

[Busted Bricks]

I really like how the lubricator is made. I'm also a syringe fill & empty kinda guy. I don't like the little drain screws used on many locos at all. Fiddly and easy to drop.

[fcheslop]

Hi. Recently got my copy of the book and she looks a wee cracker
Not sure what the popular consensus would be concerning using a Cracker style cylinder.Hedgehog boiler and a few ball bearings here and there
Im thinking of building the Jackshaft version but need to work out what dp or module the gears should be as the info is a bit vague
are the frames the same length for both versions as I cannot see the dimension for the first loco or that may just be me
kind regards

[pandsrowe]

Yes I agree the drawings do leave a little to be desired. However the dimensions are there but does mean that you have work a number of things out for yourself.
I don't think that really counts as a "begineer's" engine!

[GTB]

Not sure what the popular consensus would be concerning using a Cracker style cylinder.Hedgehog boiler and a few ball bearings here and there
Im thinking of building the Jackshaft version but need to work out what dp or module the gears should be as the info is a bit vague
are the frames the same length for both versions as I cannot see the dimension for the first loco or that may just be me

The Cracker cylinder is probably too small to get any useful work out of it in an Ellie, as it is only 8mm dia x 11mm stroke, compared to the 10mm dia x 20mm stroke of the Ellie cylinder. I can't see the point to be honest, as the Ellie cylinder is just as easy to make and would develop two to three times as much power.

The original Ellie design uses Meccano gears, which are 38dp and it is geared down 4:1. Not a standard gear size, as Meccano lived in a little world of it's own, but used Meccano gears are available online, as are replicas.

Both frame versions are 204mm frame length, the only real difference is the jackshaft location, vs. the layshaft location in the original version. The frame length dimension is missing from the first drawing, but can be scaled off the drawing.

The jackshaft drive version was apparently developed so other sources of gears can be used. No particular gears are specified, so the steam motor mounting position will depend on the gears used. The jackshaft model in the book uses gears from r/c cars that are available cheaply on Ebay. They calculate out at 0.6mod, based on the quoted dimensions from one vendor. Search for '17T 64T steel gears' on Ebay.

Regards,
Graeme