Accucraft 4 wheel IoM coach

[tom_tom_go]

Can anyone tell me what the parts next to each axle box are meant to represent please:



Also, if you own one do think these can be removed?

[IanC]

Firstly I haven't got one of these coaches.

I have no idea what they are, but they look to be cosmetic representations of something. If they are cosmetic then probably ok to remove them if that's what you want to do. Some alternative views and close up pictures may help the more knowledgeable members identify the parts and answer your question.

Ian

[GTB]

Can anyone tell me what the parts next to each axle box are meant to represent please:

They look like they are supposed to be the spring hangers. The IOM 4 wheel pass cars had the springs up high between the wheel and the W-iron, hidden behind the solebar. Accucraft haven't bothered modelling the springs themselves, but left the space they would occupy vacant.

The spring hangers aren't performing any physical function on the model, so could be cut off. Not sure why you would bother though.......

Graeme

[tom_tom_go]

Thanks Graeme.

These coaches dont go round Peco ST605 curves so I wanted to put some bogies on it but they knock on the spring hangers.

[Keith S]

The IP engineering "g" wagon has these as well, as separate white metal castings. I didn't find the instructions illustrated exactly how they were to be mounted so I spent some time trying to figure out what, exactly, they are. It turns out they are like Graeme says, part of the suspension. The closest picture I can find to what they do is this one:




Anyway, if you are going to put bogies on the coach, you should definitely cut them off, because they have to do with springing a single axle and certainly would not have any function on a bogie coach.

[GTB]

These coaches dont go round Peco ST605 curves so I wanted to put some bogies on it but they knock on the spring hangers.

Aha....

The QR in it's early days had the same problem and they used Grovers bogies on some longer 4 wagons. More or less a Cleminson underframe with the centre wheelset removed.

http://tdu.to/a27559/680119F-05-MtIsa-G ... mith-s.jpg

LGB use swivelling wheelsets for the same reason on their 4 wheelers, but rely on the couplers to keep things in line. I doubt the LGB arrangement would work with the usual SM32 loose coupling.

By all accounts Grovers bogies weren't any better in the ride department than Cleminson's patent, but on models the passengers don't complain.

Regards,
Graeme

[tom_tom_go]

Thats very interesting Graeme, I might just do that rather than the bogie idea...

[tom_tom_go]

I could not bring myself to perform surgery on this coach so I have found by changing the IoM wheels for Accucraft W&L 30mm offerings which have a slightly thinner wheels it can just sneak around Peco ST605 curves.

Trouble with running 32mm wheels in Accucraft stock is that the axle boxes are always set for 45mm gauge so the 32mm wheels slide about. By adding springs the wheels stay centred:

2017-05-07 19.16.36.jpg (410.77 KiB) Viewed 7201 times

[MDLR]

Brandbright used to do 32mm gauge wheels on axles for 45mm avleboxes - I've actually got a set. It might be worth enquiring if the new owner has reintroduced them.

[tom_tom_go]

Brandbright used to do 32mm gauge wheels on axles for 45mm axleboxes - I've actually got a set. It might be worth enquiring if the new owner has reintroduced them.

Here you go:

http://www.brandbright.co.uk/product_in ... cts_id=270

I am happy with the springs, once the wheels are painted you will not notice them.

[MDLR]

I was actually thinking of the RSB 31......................

[GTB]

Trouble with running 32mm wheels in Accucraft stock is that the axle boxes are always set for 45mm gauge so the 32mm wheels slide about. By adding springs the wheels stay centred.

They look better as 4 wheelers anyway, well done.

I've never thought of using springs as spacers like that. Just make sure they aren't compressed by much, or they will increase the rolling resistance. Unless of course, you want your locos to work a bit harder so you can hear the exhaust. ;-)

The Brandbright extended bearings only work with their wheelsets. A cheap and simple way to centre Accucraft wheelsets, that doesn't require a lathe, would be to cut pieces of suitable size K&S tube to use as spacer sleeves.

Regards,
Graeme

[tom_tom_go]

Thanks Graeme for the K&S tubing idea but I already had the springs as these were left over from all the Accuraft choppers I have butchered over the years, and I like things to try and use stuff I already have (my wife's 'thriftiness' has finally got into my railway work).

The wheels rotate freely so should be fine. Now that it can stay as a 4 wheeler I can model the leaf springs shown in the picture Keith S found using Plastikard.

[IrishPeter]

These coaches dont go round Peco ST605 curves so I wanted to put some bogies on it but they knock on the spring hangers.

Aha....

By all accounts Grovers bogies weren't any better in the ride department than Cleminson's patent, but on models the passengers don't complain.

Regards,
Graeme

Oddly enough, the Cleminson carriages on the Isle of Man rode well. Even with minimal maintenance, the ride on N42 when she was taken down to the railway museum in 1975 was described as smooth and steady. At that time the IMR's permanent way was in - erm - less than optimum condition - i.e. two streaks of rust through the weeds, except for where the bog ore had been spread so thickly that weeds wouldn't grow! The downfall of the MNR Cleminson carriages was the tendency of the Mansell wheels in the centre truck to disintegrate, though that was cured through better inspection procedures after 1905, there was a bit of suspicion attached to them, and they were very much second string passenger equipment once the Big Fs arrived, and the old four wheelers began to be put on bogie underframes. The worst thing about them was that the third class compartments were less that five feet across, which made them "knee-knockers" when compared to even the meanest IMR stock. They don't seem to have been used much after 1939, and they gradually accumulated in Harry Cubbon's wing behind the carriage shed at St John's until they were toasted in the 1975 Carriage Shed fire. That said, an example of each type survives, and the body of one of the First Class saloons sits in front of the works.

Cheers,
Peter in Va

[GTB]

Oddly enough, the Cleminson carriages on the Isle of Man rode well.

Compared to what though, the IOM bogie carriages? British bogie design wasn't very sophisticated, even into the 1950s.

The worst riding passenger vehicles on the VR were the Walker railmotors, which had a typical UK bogie design under the passenger section.

Cleminson underframes were claimed to position the axles perfectly radial to a curve, but that could only happen when they were fully on the curve. The axles certainly weren't in an ideal arrangement as the vehicle entered a curve and they must have lurched very badly going through pointwork, especially crossovers.

The ride quality of the MNR Cleminsons may have had more to do with the seating than the suspension.

Regards,
Graeme

[IrishPeter]

I doubt it was the seats, the thirds had hard wooden benches, and the firsts were horse hair. However, they did not "three-penny bit" into corners the way the early bogie coaches did as there was more control over sideways movement with the Cleminson system than with the relatively primitive diamond frame bogies used on 48 of the 49 bogie carriages built as such. The plate frame bogies on the "Pairs" seem to be smoother - less threepenny bit motion, less inclined to roll - so why the post-1909 bogies were still built with diamond frame trucks is beyond me, except that was the way they had always done it.

Before the relays, the worst bit for ride quality used to be around Ronaldsway where there was a lot of 27' 60lb/yard rail that came from the GNR(I). As bogie centres on the IOM carriages are either a little under or a little over 27' you can imagine what it felt like. Wallowing is one description I have heard, and about the only one that can be repeated in a public forum!

Peter in VA