Annual loco sales?

[mikewakefielduk@btinterne]

At the moment the garden rail loco market seems to be changing, which means you may be entering it at just the right time.

The major manufacturers appear to be aiming more and more at the expensive end of the market. As has been said elsewhere, its been a while since either Regner, Accucraft or Roundhouse produced a new live steam loco design in the lower price bracket (i.e up to around £600 - £700). Just look at  the recently announced Roundhouse Darleeling battery loco that costs nearly £1000 for a manual version (and has sold well I understand).

Mamod of course continue to do well with their Mk111 oscillator at just over £300 new but their piston valve locos are over £400 and their internally gas fired loco under development is sure to be over £500.

It looks like the market for live steam locos at the cheaper end is likely to be pretty good currently, so if you can produce something that is well made, detailed, unusual enough to be different but not quirky and at the "right" price you could do well.

[Busted Bricks]

Achieving a "one size fits all" if impossible but I am aiming to provide a loco that has some flexibility. I will be dual gauge and will likely be available fully RTR or unpainted without cab. The latter should appeal to those who might want to try their hand at bodywork. The design lends itself well to a number of styles. Of course a tram body could also be fitted.

It certainly won't appeal to any die-hard scale fans but then that is not my target market. It's an affordable, cheerful little loco that you let the children/grandchildren loose on (with suitable supervision of course).

I'm working towards a target price below £300 quid and at the moment that looks realistic. If you look at what I did with the Busted Bricks kit range you will know that my focus is on entry level, affordable products without resorting to shabby quality.

In terms of timescale it all depends on how long my current contract keeps being extended for. Currently it runs until end of June.

[sstjc]

If thats the design brief then I will certainly be interested funds permitting !
Barry

[GardenRail]

15 a year sounds very low doesn't it? But I promise you the market is more lack lustre than the blurb in magazines would have you believe.
Your problem is that a lot of people are not builders and want ready made and the market is incredibly small. Here's a general selling rule of thumb:- one half of one per cent I.e what is it now? 4000 16mm association members? That then equates to 20 possible sales? Look at Accucrafts net worth, the info is available on the internet, the numbers are very modest. Also railway enthusiasts have a particular interest to them so that cuts down the sales. I know what you're thinking 'if I can earn 2k a month from home with only 50 sales a year it will work out"
You won't be the first to try it!

The moot point here is the number of people prepared to build or modify. The 16mm Association did pretty well out of their kit – although I have not seen that many completed as yet. DJB have taken orders for their limited edition batch of gas fired 'Robert' kit loco - and this is the best part of 1500 squid (they could easily sell more but this is the last batch of Hackworth valve gear). It all depends on the loco of course. Roundhouse have sold over 200 of their £3,500 Garratt. As to gauge then there is no doubt that you would have to be looking at outside framed 're-gaugable models to pick up on both gauges. any NG live steam loco limited to 45mm would largely bomb.
Either way, i rather think you would sell significantly more than 10 to 15 IF this is a running locomotive with just bodywork to add. Perhaps this could later be supplied as a separate kit - thereby picking up on those who are afraid of any sort of scratch construction. Few people in the narrow gauges limit themselves to particular prototypes, particularly in the below 1300 sovs bracket. £250 is VERY cheap - even Mamod's next loco is aiming at a target price of £600 - so certainly if it works and can pull a reasonable train there are many people who would be interested.. Promote initially through the free trade news sections of GardenRail and SMT - but do set up a Facebook page - this is an effective way to promote in this market.. There are several busy groups based on garden railways and usage appears to be increasing while forums and e groups are not.

[MDLR]

The moot point here is the number of people prepared to build or modify. The 16mm Association did pretty well out of their kit – although I have not seen that many completed as yet.

This is not strictly true. The Association did Victory as a "no profit" exercise - the small surplus which has accrued is to be donated to charities connected to Keith Dyer, who designed it.

[GardenRail]

The moot point here is the number of people prepared to build or modify. The 16mm Association did pretty well out of their kit – although I have not seen that many completed as yet.

This is not strictly true. The Association did Victory as a "no profit" exercise - the small surplus which has accrued is to be donated to charities connected to Keith Dyer, who designed it.

Yes - poor choice of words Brian. I meant in terms of number produced...

[Busted Bricks]

How many Victory kits were produced?

Some progress has been made. I have now sourced suppliers for gears, CNC turned parts such as wheels and someone to do the laser cutting. I have some numbers to crunch before I decide how much to invest. My current contract pays well so I can afford to invest with falling into debt. I'm playing the long game here. Some parts will have to be made in quantity but they are generic so can be used in future designs as well as being sold on their own to loco builders. I already have all I need in terms of machines and tooling except for the odd drill or tap.

[cncmodeller]

Being a professional modelmaker now since 1988 I have a bit of experience about making money from models,We always reckon on average that the material costs alone of any model ( whatever it is ) should be about 10% without labour so a £300 quid engine should be about £30. Its always very seductive to assume that you can sub out all your CNC and get it back and bolt it together.
I'm at the moment building a Keith Bucklitch Brazil class loco and I have 3x 3D CNC machines to help me, but the reality of setting them up for each part is considerable I can assure you and I'm only doing one for myself! As I mentioned in an earlier post its ok for Roundhouse and Accucraft to get and make large orders but they have a constant stream of mentions in the model railway press, as a one man band you might get a mention once in the magazines but what happens the month after?this could be a problem as I've also noticed that garden railway modellers are not so forward in championing new products on the net as their plastic kit modeller counterparts.
John

[Busted Bricks]

I don't plan to sub out all parts. Currently only considering unions, boiler bushes, wheels and gears. Plus laser cutting of steel parts of course. Laser cutting is a small outlay as prices are good from qty as low as 25 sets. My aim is to build an initial batch of 25 locos and take it from there.

This is something I have wanted to try for a long time and I am now in a position where I have enough money to get started. It's only about 2 weeks pay I'm putting into this. If it doesn't work out it is not a big deal.

[rebelego]

How many Victory kits were produced?

200 I think. (?) At NGRS 2014 it was possible to sign up for a new batch of Victory kits, but the interest turned out to be too low.

Have you considered running your Cracker project as a kickstarter project? Or setting up your own website taking preorders and/or uncommitted interests?

[Busted Bricks]

I'm surprised that many kits were sold but that's good to hear.

I'm not a fan of Kickstarter and I don't think it is available for my country anyway. People seem to have this idea they are investing in a business when in reality it is just a pre-order system for something that may or may not see the light of day. Plus Kickstarter take a share of the proceeds.

I'm generally not keen on taking orders for something I haven't made yet. Products will be put up for sale when they are available. I have found that people who express an interest in a product are rarely the ones who actually buy it. I will never take money up front unless it is a bespoke product and there is a very clear written agreement about the terms. When you are a one man band, things can and do go wrong some times.

I already have a fully featured online shop and a Facebook presence for my business, Busted Bricks (blame the late Colin Binnie for that name). I also have a Youtube channel. Currently with 303 subscribers but my kit business has been dormant for quite a while. One video has over 100,000 views.

I know a professional videographer and photographer who owns an advertising business. He owes me a favour so I can have a nice promo video made.

[rebelego]

Kickstarter is a good thing for those who need funding to get started. I wasn't aware that you were already in the business and well suited. A batch of 25 probably sold within two years should be quite ok to give it a try.

[Sir Clothem Cap]

can I register an interest in buying one,

[laurence703]

In a Victory? They're not being produced anymore.

[Sir Clothem Cap]

No the busted bricks loco

[Busted Bricks]

Thanks!

The plans are on hold for the time being. Since the UK would be my main market I have to see what impact the Brexit decision will have. The drop in the exchange rate means the UK price would be higher than originally planned.

Anyway, it looks like I may get my contract extended until the end of the year so that buys me some time.

Michael

[Busted Bricks]

I've come a small step closer to my goal of making locos. Today I purchased an automatic Schaublin lathe that I can make some of the fittings on. The guy I bought it from can CNC turn the parts for me I can't make on the Schaublin and his prices are very reasonable.

Not much will happen until next year though. January 2018 we will relocate to Denmark.

I had to take money out of the fiber laser budget to help pay for the house we have bought. However there is a small business grant I can apply for that may help fund the laser.

schaublin.jpg (145.05 KiB) Viewed 6907 times

[tom_tom_go]

Good luck with your project.

What type of locos were you thinking of producing?

[Busted Bricks]

Cracker and other simple geared oscillator locos. Aimed at the budget end of the market. Possibly as bolt together kits as well as RTR.

[Big Jim]

Bolt together kits would be most interesting. Many people have good mechanical skills but lack the ability to machine stuff.
However I have heard from someone who offered his products as kits or ready made that there are sometimes problems with people being unable to build the kit and blaming their own lack of skills and sense on the kit.
I for one like the idea of a basic running chassis and boiler as a kit and then options for the rest of the build.