Brand new - and completely confused!

[flying scotsman]

Hello folks and thanks for letting me in.

This is probably something you've heard a thousand times, but where the hell do I start?

I'm a long time train and plastic modeller and have built small indoor layouts in the past (OO and N) and am familiar with all that. Now that we have our garden sorted out my wife and me would like an outdoor train layout.
But we have no idea where to start. The whole practicality of track laying , grading etc etc is no problem. I can do all that and understand the issues. I'm stuck on the things like scales, gauges etc.
It all seems very confusing!
What I want is to build something simple, round and round, electric powered (track fed) that I can sit and watch go round and play with my grandaughter.
I've been looking at 0 gauge things and it seems I could also run 32mm narrow gauge models on this. Am I right?

My main question is... what is the quickest and easiest way into this garden train malarky? Peco O gauge track? Trainsets? (where can these be bought?)
I really want to get something up and running that can be extended as and when I have the funds and / or time.

Any advice greatly received folks, thanks in advance.

[invicta280]

Hi, welcome and happy new year!
If you prefer a track supply electric system there is plenty of choice. Peco make track in virtually every scale and Bachmann supply large scale ( both standard and narrow guage) trains.
Then of course, there is LGB which is generally regarded as G scale, with their own 45mm track.
There are some very succesful 00 scale outdoor layouts.

[flying scotsman]

Happy New Year to you too. Thanks for the reply.

I've been having a proper poke around and as far as I can see G scale (whatever that means..) seems the best supported and most cost effective way in.
Is that a fair assessment?

Also I'm keen to scratch build and scratch build. Both for cost reasons and fun. I like modelling!
Is it fairly easy to obtain components etc. to home build stock?

[invicta280]

LGB is a complete system. Other people on here may know more about it. It is in my opinion quite expensive, has a plastic look to it and most of the rolling stock is based on continental or US types. I'm not criticizing it, just not my cup of tea. Check their website.

G scale is I believe, (correct me if i'm wrong folks) nominally 1:22.5 scale but the term G scale is used loosely to apply to railways scaled between that and 1:29. The common feature is the track guage of 45mm.

[Annie]

I chose 45mm gauge mainly because that's the more common garden gauge here in New Zealand and it's always nice to be able to have something to run should you visit other garden railways.  LGB is frighteningly expensive so I never considered it.  Like you I served my apprenticeship on 00 gauge indoors, then became distracted by P4 before moving up to coarse scale 0 gauge, then 1/2 inch scale and now 16mm scale.
I've always been a scratch builder and if you like to make models the larger scales are a lot of fun.  Also if you're like me and getting older large scale models are easier on the eyesight  :lol:

These days I mostly work in wood and cardboard and I've built some successful locos by adapting the mechs from battery trainsets.  Working in large scale doesn't have to be expensive unless you want it to be.

[sstjc]

I've never considered track power because of the cost of the models. I tend to think that you get more fun from fiddling about with battery power then going to steam later on. You could do a lot worse than peco track and some of the kits from http://www.eagleassist.com/hglw/kits.html & http://www.ipengineering.co.uk/
Barry

[MDLR]

Welcome!

You will find track power in the to be a pain at the VERY least, an unmitigated disaster at most! Far better to go 16mm scale, join the 16mm Association and get their welcome pack - a garden railway handbook, a book on modelling the early FR, TWO DVDs - one of lines and one of demonstrations at the 2014 Peterborough Show, and four high quality magazines over the year! I would suggest that you join your local group of the Association, but I don't know where you live.........

[flying scotsman]

Thanks very much for all the advice folks. Much appreciated.
Annie..you have me summed up in a nutshell. Limited budgets and ageing eyes!

The 16mm route looks interesting. What gaugevtrack is that? I assume 16mm means 16mm to the foot?

[MDLR]

The 16mm route looks interesting. What gauge track is that? I assume 16mm means 16mm to the foot?

That's correct - it runs on 0 gauge track (but not the same track as fine scale 7mm scale models would run on - look for Peco SM32 or Mamod track to start with)

For more information, go to the 16mm Association Web Site: www.16mm.org.uk

[flying scotsman]

Thanks very much Brian. Great help.

[maxi-model]

16 mm society membership is a very good place to start or G scale society. However, the former is a very broad church, despite its name, with a larger membership (c 4250) and a well developed local area group network. You will find their members running both 32 mm and 45 mm track gauges and scales from 1:13 - 1:32. Don't get hung upon scales and gauges just yet. As a rough guide what defines the 2 main societies - 16 mm NGM/live steam and battery power,  G Scale society track power DC/DCC. But they are not mutually exclusive.

To give the widest options as far as scales/prototypes/cost/power options/future proofing go for Code 332/45 mm gauge (i.e. LGB and a whole host of compatible makes) track system. This is where the "train set" will be found. LGB starter sets are a well trodden path by a lot who ended up in the garden. This of course assumes you are not planning going the "finescale" prototypical route.

Loads of lowish cost kit based stuff out there for rolling stock (mainly laser cut plywood + some resin) and locos (live steam chassis and track power motor blocks to build on) . RTR - anything from expensive finescale brass to economical well detailed accurate plastic "mass" produced and even a wide range of Thomas the Tank Engine to keep the little ones happy. Take a browse through the suppler sections of both the 16 mm NGM and G Scale society's website supplier pages. There is a glut of good stuff on the 2nd hand market from reputable dealers as well as private sales.

Both societies run big national shows around April time with a mass of layout and supplier attendance. 16mm NGM in Peterborough, G Scale in Stafford.  Make time to visit them to start getting a feel for what is out there to whet your appetite and gauge price points.

I started out 12 years ago track power 1:29 US std gauge outline DC + smattering of LGB 1:22.5 and have ended up 1:20 US NG outline + 16 mm UK/Colonial NG with DC/battery/live steam power. I shifted from the G Scale Soc' to the 16 mm NGM 7 years ago as  the live steam  roster grew. Have fun. Max.

[flying scotsman]

Many many thanks everyone. This has certainly made things clearer for me. Really now i just need to decide on 32 or 45 mm then go from there. However given the smallish area I have im swaying toward 32 and short wheelbase stock.

Plus I like the look of it!

I appreciate the social side of the 16mm group but i've always been a lone wolf type of modeller!

Many thanks. I will be back asking more stupid questions soon!

[-steves-]

The best thing to do is pick a loco you really really like, then decide what width the original track that it used to run on, if its just a general loco then you still have both options. If it ran on 2 foot track then 32mm is the closest gauge, if it ran on 2 foot 6 inch track or 3 foot track then 45mm is the closer gauge, both of these are assuming running 16mm scale. You can run 7/8th scale which is considerably bigger in size, this is normally run on 45mm track. Then if you go with standard gauge and fancy a flying scotsman for example, this is usually gauge 1 and is again generally run on 45mm track. There are of course other common gauges of 3.5", 5" track and 7.5 inch track, depending on the budget and garden size.

Lots of options, depends on where you want to go with it in the future. I choose 45mm track coming from a guage 1 background and now modelling 3' and 2'6" gauges in 16mm or thereabouts, I am by no means a true scale person, more of a, yeah, that looks about right and use an "ish" rule to measure things with

Whatever you choose, choose it for you and have fun.

[laurence703]

I started with a simple mamod and some mamod track on my decking and it snowballed from there... joining the 16mm association was a good idea... lot of inspiration in those pages but there is also Garden Rail magazine (can get from whsmiths) which is also good.
depends what you like the look of cause theres no right or wrong way of doing most things in this hobby! I say most cause some people build their own boilers and using glue is definitely wrong!

[MDLR]

As a rough guide what defines the 2 main societies - 16 mm NGM/live steam and battery power,  G Scale society track power DC/DCC. But they are not mutually exclusive.

(Except when you build stock with wheelsets which are not insulated, like most of the 16mm stuff on offer.)

[flying scotsman]

[quote="-steves-:115369" I am by no means a true scale person, more of a, yeah, that looks about right and use an "ish" rule to measure things with .[/quote]

A man like myself!

The kids always laugh when i'm building something. All they hear from me is "yeah that'll do ..."

[maxi-model]

However given the smallish area I have im swaying toward 32 and short wheelbase stock. Plus I like the look of it!

Regardless if you go 32 or 45 mm gauge the minimum radius of the trackage you will use is dictated by the stock/locos/couplings you are running. Most makers of "16 mm" scale stuff design them to be either readily gauge adjustable between the 2 accepted norms or with specific options for building the same design for one or other gauge. The makers of what is nominally described as 16 mm scale realize that to maximize sales they need to provide for both options. If the "look" is what you're after then both gauge options are still open to you.

A point has been made regarding the need to make sure your chosen stock/locos have insulated wheels if you are proposing to run track powered. As most older 16 mm scale/32 mm gauge product has originated in the live steam and now increasingly battery powered world you need to keep an eye on this if buying 2nd hand. More recent rtr product and kits have this feature designed in now - goes back to what I wrote in the first para'. Max.