First Project Debate

nikkor · Post by **nikkor** » Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:50 am

I finally by some miracle have moved to an area that there is a live steam club in town. Shop, people to help me build my first steamer of some sorts, everything.

To say I am over joyed is an understatement.

But, oddly enough I am starting to realize that picking a project to start with is not that easy. Here's what I was considering:

3 1/2 inch gauge engine or 4 3/4 inch gauge
Pros:
Smaller, easier to build and service, more affordable. Easier to take places with me. Could set up temporary track work in my back yard when I have the steam itch.

Cons:
Less power, my club is still just 7 1/2 inch gauge- so I would have to buy my own track work until the extra track is installed.

7 1/2 inch gauge
Pros:
My club has this gauge, I can run it in the most places out of any scale, powerful, larger parts are easier to access (not like it matters with my tiny hands).

Cons:
Weight, portability, my backyard is too small for even the tiniest of locomotives in this scale. I drive a Toyota Corolla. I wouldn't mind a trailer- but still.

No matter what I pick in terms of gauge I am still at a loss about which engine I would pick. I like British prototypes, especially for some reason the LBSC Tich or Juliet. That, and I saw a 7 1/4 inch gauge Pannier 0-6-0 I really liked. Would it be a challenge to regauge it a little?

On the American end, I really like the old style 4-4-0s, but with the tender wouldn't it be massive in 7 1/2 inch gauge?

Any input would be great. Thanks in advance everyone!
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nikkor · Post by **nikkor** » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:59 pm

Oh, and if anyone knows of drawings and castings for 2 1/2 inch gauge models that would be amazing. I have a soft spot for them.

GTB · Post by **GTB** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:04 pm

nikkor:112706 wrote:I finally by some miracle have moved to an area that there is a live steam club in town. Shop, people to help me build my first steamer of some sorts, everything.

Mention of 4 3/4" and 7 1/2" suggests you are in the US. The rest of the english speaking world uses 5" and 7 1/4".

This group mostly work in SM32/45. To find US suppliers of castings for the ride on scales I'd suggest getting an issue of 'Live Steam' and looking at the adverts. If british prototype floats your boat, then an issue of 'Model Engineering' would show you what is around, but if you are in the US, shipping castings for ride on size locos across the Atlantic could send you broke.

There is a 2 1/2" gauge society in the UK dedicated to promoting the gauge. They have a website I think.

I used to play around in the large scales and still own a small 12" gauge loco, but now prefer to build locos I can lift without risking a hernia, so I work in 1:20.3 scale.

Regards,
Graeme

nikkor · Post by **nikkor** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:51 am

2 1/2" inch scale on 7 1/2" inch gauge track- makes for 3 foot gauge.

Its more along the line of probing for opinions a little from anyone that might have some experience with these scales.

IrishPeter · Post by **IrishPeter** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:14 am

2 1/2 GAUGE usually half-inch SCALE. In the 1920s and 30s, when LBSC drew a lot of popular designs or small spirit-fired and coal-fired locomotives, it was popular with both model engineers and model railway folks, though it trailed in third in popularity behind Ga.O, and Ga. 1.

The modern model railway scale is 17/32nd (1:22.5) rather than half-inch, this is confusingly referred to as Spur II in Germany, but is called Gauge 3 in England inheriting the mantle of the old half-inch scale. Basically, the Germans have forgotten about the old Gauge 2 - which ran on 52mm gauge track and was somewhere around 7/16th" to the foot scale.

"True" LGB is 1:22.5 scale so on 45mm track which makes LGB Spur IIm - i.e. 1:22.5 metre gauge. 2 1/2" (63.5mm) gauge represents standard gauge models in 1:22.5 scale. Some folks are off the opinion that the availability of LGB bits and pieces helped to kick start the Gauge 3 revival that started about 20 years ago.

I know - as clear as mud!

Peter in AZ

P.S. - IIRC, there is both a 2 1/2" Gauge Society an a Gauge 3 Society. The former is more coarse scale/model engineering orientated

nikkor · Post by **nikkor** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:13 am

I had a momentary streak of blonde infect my hands when I was typing that.

I meant 2 1/2 inch scale not gauge- I know better than that.

GTB · Post by **GTB** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:06 pm

nikkor:112767 wrote:I had a momentary streak of blonde infect my hands when I was typing that.

I meant 2 1/2 inch scale not gauge- I know better than that.

2 1/2" scale isn't common here in Oz. Most of the narrow gauge locos on 7 1/4" gauge are 3 1/2" scale, as 2' gauge was a lot more common here than 3' gauge.

Narrow gauge models on the miniature gauges rapidly get very big and very heavy, been there and done that......

Once you get past 5" gauge the models are too heavy to handle manually anyway, and too heavy for small cars, so one might as well go the extra yard and ride in the loco, instead of on it.

A friend has a ride in Baldwin 2-6-0 that weighs about a ton. It used to run on 7 1/4" gauge before it was converted to 12" gauge and it was quite stable on the narrower gauge. I started building a similar size 2-4-2, but passed it on to another friend to complete when I decided Fn3 was a better idea at my age.

This link is to the Sweet Creek loco designed by Keith Watson and originally sold here in Oz under his Wato label, but eventually taken over by RMI in the US.

http://www.rmirailworks.com/Sweet_Creek ... dXS9GIaySM

The RMI Stuart loco is another Wato design that goes well. The Aust. ones are mostly built as an 0-4-2T, which makes them more suitable for smaller sites.

http://www.rmirailworks.com/Stuart.asp#.VdXeNmIaySM

This film clip shows what sort of garden railway you can build if you have a big enough garden.......

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bDqh3ZkRJpI

The plain black 2-6-0 in the second scene is the loco that was used as the basis of the Sweet Creek design. The red bogie coach behind it is also ride in and to the same nominal scale, we can carry 5 adults, or 10 kids in that. My little rail tractor built for works duties also features towards the end.

Regards,
Graeme

Maple · Post by **Maple** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:22 pm

Bigger the better, thats all i will say!

nikkor · Post by **nikkor** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:25 pm

If I had that kind of space I think that I would copy the Haywood prototype full sized and call it a day

Roll models has some beautiful locomotives, but those are just plain massive.

steam4ian · Post by **steam4ian** » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:11 am

Nikkor.

Sorry to open your old thread but I was overseas when you asked the question.
At my club (I am the secretary) we have both 3.5", 5"and 7.25"gauges. We have one regular runner on 3.5" which is a "Juliet" owned by Dr Allan Wallace (look him up on Google under "valve gear") who pulls two other adults.
I do have a small 0-4-0 on 5"gauge which now has a boiler problem and was very challenging to drive but taught me a lot.
Recently I acquired an 0-6-0 on 7.25"gauge. This loco is to the "Simplex" design increased by 1.5 times. Whilst not big by US standards it can pull a reasonable load. At the club on 7.25" are two 0-4-0s and a 0-4-2 based on British narrow gauge these also pull well. In the large loco department we have Black 5 4-6-0 again by Dr Allan Wallace.

My comment is that an 0-4-0 on 7.25/7.5" is a practical loco if a good design. I am sure there are switcher designs in the USA which would be in your capacity.

Don't forget the opportunities provided by cheque book engineering.

Good luck
Ian

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