Printer bed materials

[-steves-]

Interestingly, it says "Material: ABS (Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene) ", so presumably it is a thin solution of ABS in some solvent...

Even more interestingly, the MSDS from the manufacturer of 3DLAC PLUS states the composition is a PVP/PVA co polymer dissolved in iso-propanol. Which makes it chemically similar to a glue stick thinned down with a solvent.

No idea how Amazon came up with it being ABS, but I think I'd trust a manufacturers original MSDS more than I would Amazon.

It looks like a pump pack, so I guess it's optimised to get a thinner and more even layer of adhesive than you could ever get by rubbing a glue stick across a glass plate.

Graeme

Indeed, it atomizes really well in a very fine mist and no shock there is iso-propanol in there, it gives quite a kick to the nose if you get close to the plate after spraying. I have a load of "isop" from resin cleaning, maybe I could mix some glue in there and make my own, lol

[ge_rik]

Fascinating info. I wonder what would happen if I thinned some Pritt with isopropyl alcohol and painted it on......

Rik

[GTB]

I have a load of "isop" from resin cleaning, maybe I could mix some glue in there and make my own,

No idea, the only way to find out is to do the experiment......

There's supposed to be about 2% polymer in there, but there may be other components that aren't mentioned, as there's no legal requirement to list non-hazardous substances in an MSDS.

What the MSDS info does suggest is that it might be easier to remove residual 3DLAC (or Pritt for that matter) from the plate by wiping down with isopropanol, rather than scraping away with a paint scraper.

Graeme

[ge_rik]

I might give hairspray a try. Probably gives a smoother surface than Pritt

Rik

Well! What a revelation! I bought a really cheap aerosol can of hairspray from my local cheapo shop (£1.49 for 450ml) and applied a very light layer to the glass beds of both my printers and, with some trepidation, tried some prints - two large rectangular parts (sides and ends of a van), two very long and narrow parts which were only 10mm short of the width of my smaller print bed (solebars for the van) a couple of small parts (brake gear for the van) and a tall part with a narrow base (half the roof printed end-on). They all stuck with absolutely no curling at the corners or ends. In fact, even after the beds had cooled I had the chisel them off. And the undersides were as smooth as babies' botties!

So, thanks. Hairspray is my go to bed adhesive from now on!

Rik
PS It has the added advantage of making the workshop smell suspiciously like a tart's boudoir.....

[philipy]

Very interesting Rik, I must remember that for the future.

I've made some small progress myself. Finally got around to installing my new glass bed this morning and did one small test print without any sort of adhesion assistance and it worked perfectly, just on the surface of the glass.
I have a can of 3DLac sitting waiting but won't try it until I get a problem without.

[philipy]

It has the added advantage of making the workshop smell suspiciously like a tart's boudoir.....

...and you know this, how???

[ge_rik]

It has the added advantage of making the workshop smell suspiciously like a tart's boudoir.....

...and you know this, how???

I should have added "allegedly" ......

Rik

[philipy]

Well, thanks to everyone for the various inputs, this is just to let you know that I seem to have successfully re-invented the wheel.
As I said, my first test print on the glass bed worked perfctly with no aid. However my 2nd print showed a curling/lack of adhesion. This wasn't totally unexpected since it was an "h" shape approx 50mm top to bottom and only 2mm thick and the top arm of the h curled away from the bed. I tried it again with the 3DLac and it was fine, except that then I couldn't get it to unstick and had to resort to a flat blade and wooden mallet to get it off!

For reference, I had previously printed the same item on the flexible bed and it both stuck and then peeled off, with no problems at all...

I've found some Tesco "Value" hairspray in the cupbaord ( left over from sticking foliage on 4mm treees) so I may give that a try just out of interest.

[-steves-]

Well, thanks to everyone for the various inputs, this is just to let you know that I seem to have successfully re-invented the wheel.
As I said, my first test print on the glass bed worked perfctly with no aid. However my 2nd print showed a curling/lack of adhesion. This wasn't totally unexpected since it was an "h" shape approx 50mm top to bottom and only 2mm thick and the top arm of the h curled away from the bed. I tried it again with the 3DLac and it was fine, except that then I couldn't get it to unstick and had to resort to a flat blade and wooden mallet to get it off!

For reference, I had previously printed the same item on the flexible bed and it both stuck and then peeled off, with no problems at all...

I've found some Tesco "Value" hairspray in the cupbaord ( left over from sticking foliage on 4mm treees) so I may give that a try just out of interest.

Did I mention it only needs a very thin fine misting? I assume the 3DLac was successful it sticking it to the bed, lol . It's always more difficult to get things off glass compared to anything flexible, but IMO it's worth it for the better 1st layer quality

[ge_rik]

Did I mention it only needs a very thin fine misting? .....

Yes, I'm beginning to learn that. After Pritt, which requires a fairly even coating over the whole area on which the print will be placed, I'm having to learn how to just give it a very light swish.

How do you prevent it from gumming up the surrounding works? I'm assuming that after a while, fairly thick deposits could find their way on to everything else on the printer.

Rik

[philipy]

How do you prevent it from gumming up the surrounding works? I'm assuming that after a while, fairly thick deposits could find their way on to everything else on the printer.

Yep, that concerned me as well, but I simply took the glass off and sprayed it away from the m/c and then replaced it to do the print.

Re Steve's comment. I have wondered if I put too much on, the pump spray take a little getting used to I suspect. Certainly none came out on the first couple of pumps and then I got a sort of thin puddle.

[-steves-]

Did I mention it only needs a very thin fine misting? .....

Yes, I'm beginning to learn that. After Pritt, which requires a fairly even coating over the whole area on which the print will be placed, I'm having to learn how to just give it a very light swish.

How do you prevent it from gumming up the surrounding works? I'm assuming that after a while, fairly thick deposits could find their way on to everything else on the printer.

Rik

It just doesn't gum up, it goes on nothing like Pritt Stick which I used to use a lot in the past. One reason I changed to 3DLac was the constant washing of the bed.

[-steves-]

How do you prevent it from gumming up the surrounding works? I'm assuming that after a while, fairly thick deposits could find their way on to everything else on the printer.

Yep, that concerned me as well, but I simply took the glass off and sprayed it away from the m/c and then replaced it to do the print.

Re Steve's comment. I have wondered if I put too much on, the pump spray take a little getting used to I suspect. Certainly none came out on the first couple of pumps and then I got a sort of thin puddle.

Exactly, spray it on away from the printer, the chances are you removed the plate to remove the last print, so just spray it while off and the pop it back on. It doesn't seem to have a life span before using the bed again once on there.

Give the 3DLac pump a good solid couple of pumps to start with and it should turn into a nice, thin even mist after that. If you leave it for a few days with the lid off you may need to do the same again with a couple of solid depressions and it will turn back to a fine mist again. You certainly don't need much, just a mist covering. If it doesn't turn to a mist, there is something wrong with your bottle, I have quite a few empty spares if required.

[philipy]

One reason I changed to 3DLac was the constant washing of the bed.

Thanks Steve.
How often do you find you need to clean the 3Dlac off the bed? I assume that each print removes the layer it sticks to, so there will be a surrounding area that never gets printed on and slowly builds up a thickness?

[-steves-]

One reason I changed to 3DLac was the constant washing of the bed.

Thanks Steve.
How often do you find you need to clean the 3Dlac off the bed? I assume that each print removes the layer it sticks to, so there will be a surrounding area that never gets printed on and slowly builds up a thickness?

Yes, it build slowly build up, but you will find it weeks or even months before you need to clean it, assuming your bottle doesn't go like a waterfall again

[ge_rik]

Unfortunately, the glass bed on my smaller printer isn't removable. It's glued to the heating element. I've been masking the surroundings with paper each time I spray.

Rik

[philipy]

Could you put a second sheet of glass on top?

[ge_rik]

Could you put a second sheet of glass on top?

Yes. I'll give it a try.

Rik