Water tank rivets problem

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philipy
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Re: Water tank rivets problem

Post by philipy » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:21 am

Just out of curiosity, I put one of the original tank sides on to print before I went to bed last night. It has printed pretty well, although there seems to have been some sort of shift half way up. It's pretty subtle and I don't think I can photograph it.
However all the rivets seem to be stuck tight and there is no sign of a strip coming away, at first sight, and I have tried bashing it with the edge of a paint scraper!

So I wonder if the problem is with the slicer settings more than anything else?
FWIW, I just used the settings left from my previous print, which are:
Layer height 0.18
Infill 20%
Wall line count 2
Adhesion none
Support No ( But the overhanging top lip has suffered as a result!)
Print speed 50
Min layer time 30
Print temp 200
Bed temp 50
Philip

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Re: Water tank rivets problem

Post by -steves- » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:34 am

Sound like it could be me, I will re slice it and try it on the other printer and see what happens. :thumbup:
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Trevor Thompson
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Re: Water tank rivets problem

Post by Trevor Thompson » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:20 am

This is interesting!

I am glad that it isn't quite as it first appeared. I don't really want to have to revisit all my old drawings to re-rivet them so others can use them. In many ways I have finished with these drawings and moved on.

However steves comment about rivets half way up falling off has caught my attention. I have had problems with rivets falling off. I thought I had got around it by dropping them below the surface - so I was sure they intersected the surface. Perhaps a better way is to use a guide line to encourage them to sit on the surface.

Trevor

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Re: Water tank rivets problem

Post by philipy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:23 pm

Trevor Thompson wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:20 am I have had problems with rivets falling off. I thought I had got around it by dropping them below the surface - so I was sure they intersected the surface. Perhaps a better way is to use a guide line to encourage them to sit on the surface.
I've been doing a bit of investigating myself. When I import an stl into Sketchup, it loses all the component and group boundaries so to some extent I'm guessing what you did to start with.
However, from my experiments, a component rivet will sit ON the surface and 'bond' with it automatically as long as you get the first one in the correct place, ie you get the little tooltip that says " on surface". Once you have the first one in the right place, you can then multiply it as we discussed a few days ago and they will all bod to the surface and shouldn't subsequently fall off.
Similarly if you get two groups or components they will snap together, just position them roughly then zoom in, select and grab one of of the objects and drag to to where it should mate with the other one - I find a sharp/square corner is the easiest place to do it..
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Re: Water tank rivets problem

Post by -steves- » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:13 pm

OK, time for an update from me.

There are a number of unprintable stl files in a couple of items, I wont go into it too much, but suffice to say Cura is really not happy with some of them at all and refuses to print certain parts as they are not attached. At the moment my only fix is to import them in to Repetior Host and force a fix on the stl, which most of the time it manages quite well, but sometimes just gets rid of a bit of the file, like one of the borders on a name plate, bizarre!

This is what it looks like in Repetior before and after it fixing it
manifold2.JPG
manifold2.JPG (88.94 KiB) Viewed 4759 times
manifold3.JPG
manifold3.JPG (68.44 KiB) Viewed 4759 times
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Re: Water tank rivets problem

Post by -steves- » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:14 pm

This one shows what I see in Cura with a "non manifold" file and the yellow one is how is should look and does look after Repetior has fixed it.

Why it does it, I have absolutely no idea? :dontknow: What I do know is that Repetior manages to fix most of the files.
Attachments
manifold4.JPG
manifold4.JPG (112.57 KiB) Viewed 4746 times
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Re: Water tank rivets problem

Post by Trevor Thompson » Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:55 am

Steve

I suppose the main thing is that you are managing to use the files!

Im sorry that you are having so many problems with them, but it is difficult to know how to prevent this issue occurring in the future. Clearly just because I can print it successfully doesn't mean it will work for others. Of course I have no reliable way of knowing this in advance.

For example I have just printed the first class seat for coach 16.

IMG_1479.jpg
IMG_1479.jpg (1.49 MiB) Viewed 4723 times
In sketchup the inspector identifies surface issues including "nested objects" which are the armrests which just impinge on the backrest. The backrest is curved so I cant get a flat surface to sit on a curved surface - and the only solution is to insert the armrest into the backrest slightly. When I import the stl file into the slicer it identifies issues with the surface and wants to repair the file. If I let it repair it it destroys the curved surface of the seat itself - and that is an area where there are no problems - I am sure there aren't. If I tell it to ignore the problems it just prints it out perfectly. So I really don't know if I should continue to share things that I create!

Trevor

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Re: Water tank rivets problem

Post by philipy » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:36 am

Trevor Thompson wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:55 am
In sketchup the inspector identifies surface issues including "nested objects" which are the armrests which just impinge on the backrest.
Trevor,
Are you using the Sketchup "Intersect faces with model/selection" command? It's in both the Edit drop down and right click mouse.
Trevor Thompson wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:55 am I cant get a flat surface to sit on a curved surface - and the only solution is to insert the armrest into the backrest slightly.
Yes you can as long as it is touching all over i.e. inserted just enough that there is a complete junction, and then you need to ungroup/explode everything to want to stick together ( not sure whether you need to explode a component to get this to work), then select the area you want to intersect and click and you should see the blue outlines go black. and the junctions between the curved faces have a hard line showing a proper edge, whereas if it isn't properly joined is just sort of fades together.

I've just roughly knocked this up in Sketchup and all of the surfaces are properly joined together as you can see in the 2nd pic taken from underneath with the face removed.
Screenshot 2021-04-14 11.29.00.png
Screenshot 2021-04-14 11.29.00.png (149.55 KiB) Viewed 4721 times
Screenshot 2021-04-14 11.33.05.jpg
Screenshot 2021-04-14 11.33.05.jpg (42.01 KiB) Viewed 4721 times
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Re: Water tank rivets problem

Post by -steves- » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:51 pm

Trevor Thompson wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:55 am Steve

I suppose the main thing is that you are managing to use the files!

Im sorry that you are having so many problems with them, but it is difficult to know how to prevent this issue occurring in the future. Clearly just because I can print it successfully doesn't mean it will work for others. Of course I have no reliable way of knowing this in advance.

For example I have just printed the first class seat for coach 16.
Hi Trevor

Indeed the main thing is that I am able to use the files and don't worry about the little snags with them, these things happen, I was just seeing if anyone knew what the error meant and originally how to fix that, but also why it happened. I might try fixing them in the same slicer as you use, saving that stl file and then slicing it through Cura as that's sort of what I have been doing using Repetier.

Coach seat looks great BTW :thumbup:
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Re: Water tank rivets problem

Post by Trevor Thompson » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:50 am

Are you using the Sketchup "Intersect faces with model/selection" command? It's in both the Edit drop down and right click mouse.
Trevor Thompson wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:55 am I cant get a flat surface to sit on a curved surface - and the only solution is to insert the armrest into the backrest slightly.
Yes you can as long as it is touching all over i.e. inserted just enough that there is a complete junction, and then you need to ungroup/explode everything to want to stick together ( not sure whether you need to explode a component to get this to work), then select the area you want to intersect and click and you should see the blue outlines go black. and the junctions between the curved faces have a hard line showing a proper edge, whereas if it isn't properly joined is just sort of fades together.

Yes I have been using the intersect faces command. It does intersect the faces when you use components. However the intersected part is still there and you still get the same problem. That is the universal issue with my drawings. The only way around it it to copy and paste each component into the base component and then it will do as you have shown. Of course that negates the whole point of using components.

All I can say is that it doesn't make any practical difference to my printer and I ignore the nested objects warning. That is really what I was trying to illustrate.

Trevor

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