New project. Guess what it is....( De Winton)

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Trevor Thompson
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Re: New project. Guess what it is....

Post by Trevor Thompson » Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:53 am

philipy wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:27 pm
Trevor Thompson wrote: Wed Nov 09, 2022 4:48 pm

I see that this is mostly resin printed. It looks very good. What resin have you used?
The pictures I posted earlier are actually ALL resin. Previously I've only used standard resin for small detail parts, but the resin I have atm I bought by accident ( pressed the wrong button!). I've been very impressed with it, so as an experiment I thought I'd try it on this for more structural stuff. It's Anycubic "Tough" Translucent resin. It looks the same as their standard stuff but isn't quite as brittle ( although it will still snap if hit) and can actually be carved with a sharp knife. It is also slightly flexible after first curing but I think that gets lost as time passes. It is also an absolute swine to get off the plate if it is printed flat on the plate, rather than on a skate.
That is interesting information. I had problems with some of the things I made over a year ago - and I can't remember what resin I used then. Some of these earlier figures have "exploded" after being left outside for 2 weeks in the summer. I think I was using resins from the manufacturer of my printer - but I cant be certain. Recently I have been buying mine from "Technology Outlet" and using their own brand resins. I have settled on the ABS like resin they sell (doesn't appear on their website at the moment). I suppose that early experience has made me want to stick to a known resin - and hopefully gain confidence in it.

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philipy
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Re: New project. Guess what it is....

Post by philipy » Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:01 pm

Well, I've been experimenting and so far it seems to be getting there, whether it will work in practice remains to be seen.

I've been planning to use up motor I had spare at the end of the Contractors Loco project, a small N20 "gearmotor" with double ended output shaft. I was intending to mount it vertically in the DeWinton boiler and put a sprocket on each shaft to chain drive both axles. I always knew that the driven axle would be tight for space with the 3D printed double eccentric in the centre of the axle but I hoped that I would get away with it... Unfortunately..... :roll:

Sooo, I dusted off the brain cell again and worked out that there is actually enough room between the two eccentrics for the sprocket but then that raises the spectre of quartering if they are printed separately.
Firstly, I wondered if it would be possible to print a 'Delrin lookalike' sprocket so I measured up a genuine one and carefully drew and printed it. To my surprise it didn't look bad and the chain appeared to fit the teeth, so I modified the double eccentric drawing by pulling the ends apart and then slid the sprocket drawing into the gap and put it all together as one solid item. It took about 40 minutes to print and getting the supports off was a bit of a pain, but this is the end result.
As I say I don't know how well it will actually work and, being printed in PLA I have no idea what sort of lifespan it will have.
DSC_0001[1].png
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Re: New project. Guess what it is....

Post by StuartJ » Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:11 pm

philipy wrote: Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:01 pm I've been planning to use up motor I had spare at the end of the Contractors Loco project, a small N20 "gearmotor" with double ended output shaft. I was intending to mount it vertically in the DeWinton boiler and put a sprocket on each shaft to chain drive both axles. I always knew that the driven axle would be tight for space with the 3D printed double eccentric in the centre of the axle but I hoped that I would get away with it... Unfortunately..... :roll:
What's your experience with the gearmotors please? I have a Loco Remote Brush loco in the queue to build and, never having used one before, I'm a bit dubious about how small and delicate the gearmotor is. For example - do they stand up to garden use? Are they designed to run continously etc?

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Re: New project. Guess what it is....

Post by philipy » Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:28 pm

The motors/gears are ok although the open gearbox with their really fine gears are prone to collecting muck and jamming. I learned that lesson early on and now I print a thin resin shroud to enclose them.

They are Ok for small 0-4-0's but I doubt they would be much good in a larger loco, three or four wagons is about the limit I think. I've had one out in the garden driving the sails of a windmill for several years, though.

Graeme ( GTB of this parish) has similar experiences I think and also tend to use them in small 0-4-0 railmotors, etc.
Philip

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Re: New project. Guess what it is....

Post by ge_rik » Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:06 am

Congratulations on getting the Delrin gear geometry right. Shows the value of learning how to use a decent 3D CAD package.
It'll be interesting to see how the mechanism stands up. Will you be using some sort of silicone grease?

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Re: New project. Guess what it is....

Post by philipy » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:26 am

ge_rik wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:06 am
It'll be interesting to see how the mechanism stands up. Will you be using some sort of silicone grease?

Rik
Yes. I've been using some Tamiya grease that I bought in the late 80's but the tube is now empty and I bought this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195060576184 a few weeks ago to replace it. It claims to be for servo's, plastics, etc so
I put a bit on the Austro-Daimler and it seems to be OK.

Edited to add that I've been having a bit of a problem with the resin printed crossheads sticking in the slide bars... just put a bit of that grease on and they are sliding perfectly now. In fact it has shown that in my previous efforts to get them to slide I've actually filed a wee bit too much meat off!
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Re: New project. Guess what it is....

Post by StuartJ » Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:55 am

philipy wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:28 pm The motors/gears are ok although the open gearbox with their really fine gears are prone to collecting muck and jamming. I learned that lesson early on and now I print a thin resin shroud to enclose them.

They are Ok for small 0-4-0's but I doubt they would be much good in a larger loco, three or four wagons is about the limit I think. I've had one out in the garden driving the sails of a windmill for several years, though.

Graeme ( GTB of this parish) has similar experiences I think and also tend to use them in small 0-4-0 railmotors, etc.
Thanks, that helps a lot. The gearmotor in the Brush loco is fully enclosed, which should stop it colecting any muck. I was concerned that they were orginally intended for occasionally moving things rather than continuous use, but if you have successfully used one for something like a windmill then clearly that isn't the case.

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Re: New project. Guess what it is....

Post by GTB » Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:34 pm

philipy wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:26 am Yes. I've been using some Tamiya grease that I bought in the late 80's but the tube is now empty
I've been using Labelle #106 Teflon Grease for many years on plastic gears and bearings. It's amazing how much smoother a new model runs with a little teflon grease in the gears and bearings.

Labelle claim it is plastic compatible and that has been my experience. You don't need to use much, my first 15ml tube lasted about 40 years. I use their plastic compatible oils as well.

Silicone oils and greases can make for an interesting life and I avoid them. They are good lubricants, but silicones can contaminate surfaces and interfere with paint adhesion in a big way, causing a paint defect called 'fisheyes'.

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Re: New project. Guess what it is....

Post by ge_rik » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:28 am

GTB wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:34 pm
philipy wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:26 am Yes. I've been using some Tamiya grease that I bought in the late 80's but the tube is now empty
I've been using Labelle #106 Teflon Grease for many years on plastic gears and bearings. It's amazing how much smoother a new model runs with a little teflon grease in the gears and bearings.

Labelle claim it is plastic compatible and that has been my experience. You don't need to use much, my first 15ml tube lasted about 40 years. I use their plastic compatible oils as well.

Silicone oils and greases can make for an interesting life and I avoid them. They are good lubricants, but silicones can contaminate surfaces and interfere with paint adhesion in a big way, causing a paint defect called 'fisheyes'.

Regards,
Graeme
Useful info. Thanks Graeme

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Re: New project. Guess what it is....

Post by philipy » Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:55 pm

I must admit to being a bit chuffed (!) with this resin printed injector for the DW. It needs a bit more cleaning up but hopefully that will be easier to see once it has some grey primer on it:
pqr_de_winton injector.png
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Re: New project. Guess what it is....

Post by ge_rik » Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:18 pm

Wow! How tall is it?

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Re: New project. Guess what it is....

Post by philipy » Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:25 pm

With the base removed ( obviously!), its 18mm top to bottom.
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Re: New project. Guess what it is....

Post by StuartJ » Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:12 am

philipy wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:55 pm I must admit to being a bit chuffed (!) with this resin printed injector for the DW. It needs a bit more cleaning up but hopefully that will be easier to see once it has some grey primer on it:

pqr_de_winton injector.png
Very nice!

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Re: New project. Guess what it is....( De Winton)

Post by philipy » Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:58 am

Some more small parts;
I redid the injector because I realised that I had missed one of the connections, and also the handwheels looked a bit small. Then:
Reversing lever, Safety valve, Stokehole cover, Firing shovel ( Don't know what they actually had but there must have been something), two eccentric rods, coupling rod, one of the wheels, and one of the cranks.

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Re: New project. Guess what it is....( De Winton)

Post by Peter Butler » Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:29 pm

You're getting quite good at this!
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

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Re: New project. Guess what it is....( De Winton)

Post by philipy » Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:22 pm

Ahhh, thanks Peter, but I haven't shown you all the booboo's that I have, or am trying, to put right!

As I said before, I had to make the chassis in two parts because the printer isn't big enough to do it in one. Now, somewhere along the way, I've introduced a 2mm error between the chassis sides and the footplate top which didn't show up until it was all glued together. It isn't catastrophic but putting it right involves a fair few modifications. :twisted: :evil: :roll: :oops:
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Re: New project. Guess what it is....( De Winton)

Post by Peter Butler » Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:47 pm

philipy wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:22 pm Ahhh, thanks Peter, but I haven't shown you all the booboo's that I have, or am trying, to put right!

On second thoughts, perhaps I'll have a rethink before placing an order?
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

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Re: New project. Guess what it is....( De Winton)

Post by philipy » Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:11 pm

Very wise! :lol: :lol:
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Re: New project. Guess what it is....( De Winton)

Post by Trevor Thompson » Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:27 pm

This is looking very nice. The detail you are creating looks really good. I will be interested to see how robust the finished locomotive is. I suppose it is all down to the resin - as in finding the one with the right properties. I have successfully used printed connecting rods - so I think all of your valve gear should oscillate convincingly.

And I was about to add metal details to my printed locos!

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Re: New project. Guess what it is....( De Winton)

Post by philipy » Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:39 am

There has been a long hiatus caused by all sorts of non-railway issues, plus the fact that I wasn't very happy with the way my DeWinton was going, so the bits have all sat in a box for the last 4 months. Anyway, a few days ago I forgot about what had gone before and collected together all the individual SketchUp drawings of the components and assembled them into one complete drawing.. stl'd it...sliced it and resin printed it as one complete all-at-the-same-time model. It took 9 hours and this is the result:
DSC_0003.JPG
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The original print actually had the arms of the regulator as well but I accidentally broke them off whilst I was cleaning the supports off.
I left the water tank filler off so that there was a resin drain hole and also didnt include the boiler top and chimney for similar reasons.
Philip

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