Contractors Loco Project

A place where discussions are about 3D printing.
User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by Andrew » Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:11 pm

Lonsdaler wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:30 am I hope you grace us with more pictures and maybe a video once you have completed it.
Yes please! A remarkable model of a remarkable locomotive...

I'd forgotten you'd included sound - I wonder what such a beast would have sounded like?! I hope you've chosen something recorded on a loco with lots of cylinders, even more wheels, and a huge loud chime whistle...

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by philipy » Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:20 pm

Andrew wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:11 pm I wonder what such a beast would have sounded like?! I hope you've chosen something recorded on a loco with lots of cylinders, even more wheels, and a huge loud chime whistle...
On the assumption that the engine was begged, borrowed or stolen from a steam launch, thats what I've gone for - ripped the soundtrack from a Youtube video. It was difficult to get one that didn't have lots of gricer types yacking over the top, or sounds of water slooshing past!
Philip

User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by Andrew » Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:32 pm

philipy wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:20 pm
Andrew wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:11 pm I wonder what such a beast would have sounded like?! I hope you've chosen something recorded on a loco with lots of cylinders, even more wheels, and a huge loud chime whistle...
On the assumption that the engine was begged, borrowed or stolen from a steam launch, thats what I've gone for - ripped the soundtrack from a Youtube video. It was difficult to get one that didn't have lots of gricer types yacking over the top, or sounds of water slooshing past!
Good plan!

The water might have been OK, for a reservoir line...

Forgot to say, by the way, but that stretch of line in the pond photo is lovely, looks just right...

Trevor Thompson
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm
Location: South West Wales

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by Trevor Thompson » Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:13 pm

That is a very neat set of printed components! Really impressed with the way the filament printing and resin printing have come together in a really quirky little loco. It is going to look brilliant when its painted.

I am interested in what you are using for the sound card?

Trevor

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by philipy » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:43 pm

Trevor Thompson wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:13 pm

I am interested in what you are using for the sound card?

Trevor
Based on one of Rik's developments, from his Peckforton blogs. The sound card he was using only had 30sec recording time, but he found a way of hacking it to repeat play. The Chinese seem to have changed their electronics now and that hack doesn't work ( at least not for me!). However they now do a 4minute one. A bit more expensive, but I figured that 4 minutes is a long tme for this little beastie to be ambling about. So this is what I've got:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07KTWLXPL? ... ct_details
I changed the speaker for a 26mm diameter one to get it inside the boiler, and chopped the PCB to remove the button cells and physically reduce the o/a size and then linked it to run off the main battery pack.
Philip

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by philipy » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:46 pm

Andrew wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:32 pm

Forgot to say, by the way, but that stretch of line in the pond photo is lovely, looks just right...
Thanks, but unfortunately that pic is several yeasr old and sadly it doesn't look nearly as appealing as that now.
Philip

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by ge_rik » Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:37 pm

philipy wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:43 pm Based on one of Rik's developments, from his Peckforton blogs. The sound card he was using only had 30sec recording time, but he found a way of hacking it to repeat play. The Chinese seem to have changed their electronics now and that hack doesn't work ( at least not for me!). However they now do a 4minute one. A bit more expensive, but I figured that 4 minutes is a long tme for this little beastie to be ambling about.
I found the hack by grounding some of the connections on the board to see what happened. However, the boards I used were less than £1.50 each so I figured it wouldn't matter if I fried a couple. As it happened, I didn't fry any and found the right connection after about two attempts. If you don't mind risking your £10 investment, you could try tinkering to see if you can get it to loop after each 4min cycle.

Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by philipy » Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:16 pm

ge_rik wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:37 pm If you don't mind risking your £10 investment, you could try tinkering to see if you can get it to loop after each 4min cycle.
Yeah, I've tried it but no good. It did go completely dead at one attempt but came back after I switched it right off and on again. Figured that 4 mins would be enough, after that.
Philip

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by philipy » Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:19 pm

Andrew wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:11 pm A remarkable model of a remarkable locomotive...
I'm shortly going to have to bite the bullet and weather it, which fills me with trepidation. Weathering is a subject which I've never been any good at.
I've been reading through your posts about rusting and using iron powder. It all makes sense and I did get some powder quite a while ago when something you wrote inspired me, but I've never plucked up the courage to use it! The only thing I'm not clear about is how you actually apply the powder evenly to the wet paint? If I did it I'm sure I'd end up with big piles and bare patches, rather than an even distribution.
Philip

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by ge_rik » Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:54 am

philipy wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:19 pm ....... I'm sure I'd end up with big piles and bare patches, rather than an even distribution.
Sounds like how rust attacks metal to me ...... :lol:

Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by Andrew » Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:17 pm

philipy wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:19 pm
I'm shortly going to have to bite the bullet and weather it, which fills me with trepidation. Weathering is a subject which I've never been any good at.
I've been reading through your posts about rusting and using iron powder. It all makes sense and I did get some powder quite a while ago when something you wrote inspired me, but I've never plucked up the courage to use it! The only thing I'm not clear about is how you actually apply the powder evenly to the wet paint? If I did it I'm sure I'd end up with big piles and bare patches, rather than an even distribution.
Funnily enough, I'd be wondering how I'd weather it if I made one...

I don't think I'd go for iron filings, which I tend to use for larger patches of quite well-established rust, and this loco looks relatively well maintained, given its surroundings... I think I'd give the whole thing a wash of dilute dark grey first (with a drop of washing up liquid, if it's acrylic), wiping it down (in an up/down motion, replicating rainfall) to leave the grey in the crevices. That'll give you more "depth". Then I'd make myself a brown mixture and attack the lower parts of the loco the same way, representing grot thrown up from the ground. And then I'd mix a browny-orange and dry-brush that into the metalwork, again going for an up-down motion so that any streaks act like real streaks of rust - you can make your mixture progressively more orange as you go, so there are a few spots that look more recently rusted.

I've never tried it, but I've heard that rubbing pencil graphite into handrails/controls etc can simulate parts that are polished shiny by handling. With all of that, any brighter bits of pipework etc, lumps of coal and coal dust, plus the crew and their clothing, you'd have a fair variety of colour to alleviate the blackness...

If you do go for iron filings, make sure you've got nice fine ones - I just paint the area I want to rust (I use car spray for whole models, acrylic craft paints for smaller parts) and sprinkle it on pretty liberally, then tip off the excess when it's dry, seems to work OK. Copper sulphate solution gives a more orange finish than vinegar, which can stay disappointingly dark - shout if you want some copper sulphate, I've got more than I need. I'd test it first if I were you, you wouldn't want to spoil such a lovely model...

Good luck,

Andrew.

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by philipy » Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:00 pm

Thanks Andrew.
I actually made a start today, and what I've done so far is very close to what you've suggested.
Obviously I had already sprayed the whole thing black, as in yesterday's pictures - Halfords Matt black which is surprisingly satiny!
First thing this morning I airbrushed a dilute dark grey acrylic all over, but not evenly. That has not only relieved the black but lightened the overall colour effect to something approaching the picture, and also picked out some detail.

As you say it does look surprisingly well maintained, but once you start looking there are quite a lot of very light coloured areas of mud. The London Clay in the Chingford area is quite yellow when first dug but then quickly oxides to a dark brown, so I'm assuming the light colour indicates fairly fresh yellow spatter. On that basis I've dry brushed an Earth colour where the light patches are. It's actually quite a light brown shade, almost yellowish, so fairly close to reality I think. I'm thinking I might run some darker colour into the corners to represent the oxidised material and then dry brush a bit more of the Earth on top.

As for the rust, I've tried a few small patches on top of the roof, there aren't any pictures so nobody can tell me it's wrong! I applied some small patches of matt varnish and dropped pinches of powder on them. Left it a couple of minutes and then dropped vinegar on a couple of the patches and left the others. I didn't know how long to leave it but nothing seemed to be happening after half an hour or so, so I put copper sulphate ( I've got plenty, thank you) on top of both the vinegared patches and the unwetted ones. They all started to go brown almost immediately, quite a nice brown rust, but then they turned much more orange as you suggest.
I would prefer the deeper brown because I'm assuming that the small rusty bits along the edges of panels will be fairly longstanding build ups. So I'll have to experiment with the vinegar again, I think. The only other thing is that where I dropped the liquid on to the little heaps of powder, it washed some of it out and formed ring tide marks, which hardly look realistic!
Philip

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by philipy » Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:02 am

I've been asked about the motor and it's mounting. If you look at the underside picture back on page 6, you will see I've identified the gearbox but what you can actually see is the gearbox cover, the bottom item in the picture below. The motor is actually an "N20 dual shaft gear box motor" with a 42:1 ratio. It is mounted to the floor/chassis with two 3D printed brackets,one from the bottom and one from the top, which simply sandwich it to the floor. It would be pretty easy to design different brackets to do the same thing at any required angle, down to horizontal.
Hopefully this drawing will make things easier to see.
Screenshot 2022-02-02 06.46.25.png
Screenshot 2022-02-02 06.46.25.png (10.99 KiB) Viewed 4449 times
Two things I should point out. The shaft/axle is only 30mm o/a which is a bit tight for a 28mm B-B. I had to mount my motor off-centre to allow room for the chain drive sprocket, so when I printed the wheels, one has a simple flat back and the other has an integral hollow shaft extension, which effectively lengthens the axle on that side. It really needs to be in metal for strength and a longer life, but I don't have that luxury!!
Philip

User avatar
GTB
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by GTB » Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:06 am

philipy wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:02 am The motor is actually an "N20 dual shaft gear box motor" with a 42:1 ratio.
I wondered if you'd found a source for an N20 with a worm drive gearbox, but they aren't available from the local suppliers.

Motor drive shafts that are too short for model train use is sadly common. Extending that 30mm axle to fit one to my 45mm gauge rail motors would be interesting to say the least, so I think I'll stick with a mitre gear final drive.......

You've done a good job of getting that one to work, definitely worth an attaboy I think. ;)

Graeme

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by philipy » Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:48 am

GTB wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:06 am
I wondered if you'd found a source for an N20 with a worm drive gearbox, but they aren't available from the local suppliers.
I got mine from a UK supplier called "The Pi-Hut", who specialise in Raspberry Pi and similar, mainly for robotics I think, and they have it available at 6v with 42:1, 118:1 and 300:1 options.
However there are a few on UK ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203531982725 ... Swujtg9-KF but coming from China.
This is a 12v one but I'm sure that when I was looking a month or so ago there were more options from China.
Philip

User avatar
-steves-
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2412
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: Cambridge & Peterborough

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by -steves- » Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:27 pm

philipy wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:48 am
GTB wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:06 am
I wondered if you'd found a source for an N20 with a worm drive gearbox, but they aren't available from the local suppliers.
I got mine from a UK supplier called "The Pi-Hut", who specialise in Raspberry Pi and similar, mainly for robotics I think, and they have it available at 6v with 42:1, 118:1 and 300:1 options.
However there are a few on UK ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203531982725 ... Swujtg9-KF but coming from China.
This is a 12v one but I'm sure that when I was looking a month or so ago there were more options from China.
I do wonder if you unscrew that gearbox and try to knock out the final drive shaft and replace it with a longer one. No idea if it would work, might need some heat, but worth an idea.
The buck stops here .......

Ditton Meadow Light Railway (DMLR)
Member of Peterborough and District Association
http://peterborough.16mm.org.uk/

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by philipy » Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:36 pm

-steves- wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:27 pm
I do wonder if you unscrew that gearbox and try to knock out the final drive shaft and replace it with a longer one. No idea if it would work, might need some heat, but worth an idea.
Something along those lines did cross my mind, but the gears themselves are so fine, that the chances of getting it run smoothly after all the heavy surgery are vanishingly small, I suspect.
Philip

User avatar
Lonsdaler
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1226
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 9:50 am
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by Lonsdaler » Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:39 pm

Thanks for the extra post re. the drive Philip. I think the orientation you have fitted the motor explains why I hadn't noticed your use of that motor/gear combination.👍

Graeme - take a look on Aliexpress - several suppliers it seems.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKeSTfw
Phil

Sporadic Garden Railer who's inconsistencies know no bounds

My Line - https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11077

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by ge_rik » Fri Feb 04, 2022 6:48 pm

Lonsdaler wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:39 pm take a look on Aliexpress - several suppliers it seems.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKeSTfw
I bought mine from Ali Express. Take a bit longer to arrive but they are slightly cheaper and there's a wider selection.
I also bought my HO gauge wheels and couplings from Ali Express for my GVT project. I'm really pleased with the quality.

Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Contractors Loco Project

Post by philipy » Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:20 am

Well the loco is finished....sort of!
I had expected to post some pics and a video over the weekend when I hit a snag. The plan was to use the "LED Controller" r/c system from SMT 157 & 159 and I had that wired in and working. The only snag is that it doesn't have reverse, but Mike Jeffries, who wrote it up, has designed an add-on board to provide that function. It actually also has other functions that I don't need so I dropped Mike a line asking about omitting part of the circuit, to save space in my very tight location. We've exchanged half a dozen emails and got it down to a managable physical size. Trouble is that I then had to get the components. Then I discovered that the controller I had is a different version to the one Mike wrote up, but he has done a revised write up for that, so that meant more emails asking for the update! Then that required two more components that I didn't have, so I'm currently waiting for Mr Amazon to deliver what I hope is the last package.

Anyway, I've used the last few days to sort out the loco crew and I'm feeling quite pleased with them. The driver is sitting on the water tank with his hand on the regulator, but the regulator is part of the body and the tank is part of the chassis and whichever part I fix him to means that I can't separate the two. Normally I'd put a screw up his leg from underneath, but that won't work with this because I can't get to the bottom at that point. Then I remembered reading about people using magnets to hold figures and thought that might be the answer. I managed to find some 3mm diam by 1.5mm thick Neodym magnets and got some to try. I filed the drivers heels off and Gorilla-glued a magnet to each heel, then a small piece of tinplate can lid was glued to the floor and hey presto! If I do this in future I'll print a hole for the mgnet, because the resin is too brittle to drill.

This shows him sitting in mid air to show the strength of these little magnets, and a view of the magnets from underneath, and finally, just so he doesn't feel left out, his mate leaning against the can! I'll magnet him in due course, once I can put the body back on the chassis to get the alignment right.
DSC_0002.JPG
DSC_0002.JPG (133.08 KiB) Viewed 4537 times
DSC_0008.JPG
DSC_0008.JPG (148.67 KiB) Viewed 4537 times
DSC_0006.JPG
DSC_0006.JPG (232.49 KiB) Viewed 4537 times
Philip

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests