(WH)WHR Buildings

A place for discussing garden railway scenery, such as buildings, trees, etc....
User avatar
Peter Butler
Driver
Driver
Posts: 5219
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: West Wales

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:55 pm

Yes, I agree with your reply about applying spray paint in cold weather, which I missed completely. I have previously mentioned, elsewhere, that I have found Diane's greenhouse has a second purpose, that of spray painting, as the temperature inside seems to be ideal for that purpose when there is sun showing through the clouds.
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

User avatar
Soar Valley Light
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:18 pm
Location: North West Leicestershire

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:44 pm

Hi Andrew,

I just made the fatal mistake of typing a long reply and then finding it didn't post and lost it!

My fingers are tired so here's a brief summary of the bits about signalling layouts.

I've had a quick look on the internet for WHR (1921) signalling but found nothing. I think the subject may have been discussed on here a few years ago. We used to have a couple of real aficionados on NG signalling on here.

The layout of the lever frame you describe is not unheard of, I've seen an early Midland Railway diagram that was laid out that way. However, it's much more common to have down signals at the down end of the frame, points in the middle and up signals at the up end of the frame. On mainline railways the shunt signals would be arranged around their respective point levers. Narrow gauge lines almost never used shunt signals - hand signals were adequate. Point locks were generally of the economical type too. I also agree that distant signals would be fixed. With the possible exception of the FR (Who had some very non-standard' signalling). Narrow gauge lines were usually low cost affairs so operation and equipment was kept to the basic minimum that the Regulation of Railways and Light Railways Acts demanded.

So, for your frame I would suggest,

1. Signal, Down Home.
2. Signal, Down Starting.
3. Points, Loop Up end.
4. Points, siding no. 1.
5. Points, siding no. 2.
6. Points, Loop Down end.
7. Signal, Up Starting.
8. Signal, Up Home

As a keen gardner I also love the new use for the signal box. Put me down for a pound of tomatoes!

All the best,

Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"

User avatar
BertieB
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:13 am
Location: London
Contact:

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by BertieB » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:23 pm

Wow! This is spooky. Clearly I’m ripping off Andrew here… or perhaps we’ve just been doing the same image searches.

Anyway, I’ve cheated and mine's from a kit (Jackson’s Miniatures) though I’ve been attempting to embellish it a bit.

And I have a real cat that will come and sit on it.


I should probably have another go at those railings I suppose...
I should probably have another go at those railings I suppose...
signalbox_1A.jpg (70.79 KiB) Viewed 8379 times

User avatar
LNR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:26 am
Location: Australia

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by LNR » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:15 am

As others have said Andrew the signal box looks excellent, and fits the railway really well.
Grant.

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by FWLR » Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:49 am

Love it Andrew. Well done mate, the little details inside are great. :thumbright:
The stove is one I was looking for to go in my garage, but I couldn't seem to find one.

User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by Andrew » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:33 am

BertieB wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:23 pm Wow! This is spooky.
It certainly is! Nice 'box, Bertie! The additional detail you've added looks fantastic, a huge improvement on the basic Jackson model - I didn't recognise it! As you've seen, I'm using Jackson embossed sheets too, and I'm guessing we'll go for similar colour schemes (my guess at WHR building colours is pretty similar to SR green and cream?) so there should be a real family resemblance. I'm impressed with your barge board finials - did you carve them? I've considered various options (beads, some L&B signal finials) but have opted to leave them for now...

Cheers,

Andrew.

User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by Andrew » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:49 am

Soar Valley Light wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:44 pm I just made the fatal mistake of typing a long reply and then finding it didn't post and lost it!

My fingers are tired so here's a brief summary of the bits about signalling layouts.
Thank you! I really appreciate it! And sorry about the aching fingers!

Your comments on looking for material on WHR/NWNGR signalling prompted me to dig through the olline archive of the excellent WH Heritage Group Journal, and I found an excellent article on the history of the layout at Waenfawr: https://www.welshhighlandheritage.co.uk ... -No-50.pdf

It's a bit technical for me, but seems a fascinating set up... It seems that it didn't have starters (because of trailable loop points), but did have (red) distants and ended up with FPLs - which were worked from the box even though the points weren't, which seems odd to me? And I hadn't realised that the signals were taken out of use long before WHR days, when the NWNGR gained its Light Railway Order in 1906, although it seems they weren't actually felled until the WHR takeover.

Thanks for the suggested frame layout, which I shall use, but with the addition of some FPL levers (next to the relevant point, presumably?), just so I can paint some blue for variety, although goodness knows what colour those would have really been on a remote and independent NG branch back in the 19th Century! If the distant signals were red, presumably the levers were too, so they can represent either - I won't be making signals, so it doesn't matter! I do have some Cambrian L&B signal parts though, which might form part of a rusty heap next to the box...

Thanks again,

Andrew.

User avatar
BertieB
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:13 am
Location: London
Contact:

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by BertieB » Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:13 pm

Cheers Andrew. I was encouraged to have a first go at building a building by some of your earlier stuff, so thank you. And yes, I’ve splashed out on authentic SR colours.

The ‘1/24 scale finials’ come from ‘sanddmodels.co.uk’ at £1.50 for a pair. I’ll have to get some more...

User avatar
GTB
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by GTB » Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:31 pm

Andrew wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:50 am They're lovely, but a little twee, so will probably receive a coat of paint, the important question being what livery to opt for. That is what you call a cat's colour scheme, right?!
Use ‘cat colours’ as a search term in Google and you will find out more than you ever wanted to know about the genetics of cat coat colours and patterns.

All domestic cats are technically tabby underneath and that’s the most common coat for moggies, but not the easiest to paint I'd think. My Aurora is a calico (ginger and grey tabby patches on white), very striking, but also not easy to paint.

Graeme

User avatar
Soar Valley Light
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:18 pm
Location: North West Leicestershire

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by Soar Valley Light » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:15 pm

FWLR wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:49 am Love it Andrew. Well done mate, the little details inside are great. :thumbright:
The stove is one I was looking for to go in my garage, but I couldn't seem to find one.
Hello Rod,

I suspect the stove you were after was a Romesse. They were very common domestic and industrial appliances ranging in size from something that could be used in the house right up to the sort of thing that ought to have had a mechanical stoker! As I understand it, they went out of production between 15 and 20 years ago. The reason I heard was that the patterns were destroyed in an arson attack. They turn up quite often on second hand sites but the prices asked for them can be eye watering - and way over the odds in my view. Have a look on ebay and you'll see what I mean - but brace yourself for a shock!

All the best,

Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"

User avatar
Soar Valley Light
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:18 pm
Location: North West Leicestershire

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by Soar Valley Light » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:49 pm

Andrew wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:49 am
Your comments on looking for material on WHR/NWNGR signalling prompted me to dig through the olline archive of the excellent WH Heritage Group Journal, and I found an excellent article on the history of the layout at Waenfawr: https://www.welshhighlandheritage.co.uk ... -No-50.pdf

It's a bit technical for me, but seems a fascinating set up... It seems that it didn't have starters (because of trailable loop points), but did have (red) distants and ended up with FPLs - which were worked from the box even though the points weren't, which seems odd to me? And I hadn't realised that the signals were taken out of use long before WHR days, when the NWNGR gained its Light Railway Order in 1906, although it seems they weren't actually felled until the WHR takeover.

Thanks for the suggested frame layout, which I shall use, but with the addition of some FPL levers (next to the relevant point, presumably?), just so I can paint some blue for variety, although goodness knows what colour those would have really been on a remote and independent NG branch back in the 19th Century! If the distant signals were red, presumably the levers were too, so they can represent either - I won't be making signals, so it doesn't matter! I do have some Cambrian L&B signal parts though, which might form part of a rusty heap next to the box...
HI Andrew.

This just proves the point that whatever anyone thinks about signalling, someone else will have more knowledge/a different opinion. I was quite surprised at some of the details in the article. I shall re-read it when I have a moment, it's really informative. I'm not convinced the author wasn't tying himself in knots at some points!

There is a suggestion that the loop points were worked from a lever but trailable, that's unusual in rod works points (but technically possible) but would, IMHO, have added cost! Weighted points would have been cheaper and would also have needed the bolt to prevent any risk of them 'kicking' under a passing train.

Distant signal levers were green before they were yellow, a change which occurred with the change to the colour of the blades on the signals. It goes back to the days when green was the colour of caution and white was all clear. There was a Railway Clearing House convention for lever colours, most companies followed it but that doesn't guarantee that ALL companies did so - especially in the darker corners of the empire like North Wales!

This forum never fails to be fascinating!

All the best,

Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"

User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by Andrew » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:29 pm

Thanks Andrew, interesting stuff...

I hadn't realised that trailable points and weighted ones were different, maybe the author didn't either? And green levers sound great - really, all I'm after is a reason to have as many different coloured levers as possible without compromising too much on realism!

The lever frame's done now - it took a while! I think it's maybe a little large, but not to worry - I just want to create the right general impression through the window...

Anyway, here's how it looks now:

Signalbox 14.jpg
Signalbox 14.jpg (78.4 KiB) Viewed 8130 times
Signalbox 15.jpg
Signalbox 15.jpg (64.78 KiB) Viewed 8130 times
Signalbox 16.jpg
Signalbox 16.jpg (71.22 KiB) Viewed 8130 times

Cheers all,

Andrew.

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by philipy » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:20 pm

That is looking really good Andrew, superb job.
Philip

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by tom_tom_go » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:26 pm

What does the writing in pencil on the wall say in the second picture?

The planking looks great.

User avatar
Peter Butler
Driver
Driver
Posts: 5219
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: West Wales

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by Peter Butler » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:45 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:26 pm What does the writing in pencil on the wall say in the second picture?

It says,..... 'If you can read this the knees of your trousers will be dirty'
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

User avatar
LNR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:26 am
Location: Australia

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by LNR » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:57 pm

The view through those windows will look fantastic when its all painted Andrew, you should be well pleased.
Grant.

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by ge_rik » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:57 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:26 pm What does the writing in pencil on the wall say in the second picture?
My guess is "signal box back"
tom_tom_go wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:26 pm The planking looks great.
It sure does..... 👍

Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by Andrew » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:01 am

Thanks chaps, much appreciated!

Peter, prosaic as it sounds, I'm afraid Rik's correctly identified the writing on the wall - "signal box back". I'm very impressed you could read it from the photo Rik, I had to check on the real thing!

Glad you like the planking effect too - although, since scouring the internet for lever frame pictures I've discovered that in most signal boxes it seems to be vertical!

I won't get much done this weekend, but progress will slow now anyway as I await better weather for painting...

Cheers,

Andrew.

User avatar
Soar Valley Light
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:18 pm
Location: North West Leicestershire

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:32 pm

Andrew wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:29 pm
The lever frame's done now - it took a while! I think it's maybe a little large, but not to worry - I just want to create the right general impression through the window...

Andrew.
And WOW, you've certainly done that. It looks fantastic Andrew. I don't think the frame is too large at all, its perfectly proportioned to the signal box in my view. well done on a fantastic piece of work.

All the best,

Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"

User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: (WH)WHR Buildings

Post by Andrew » Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:30 am

Hello!

Nothing much to report on the signal box (apart from a door knob - hold the front page!), but I've used various leftover bits and bobs to create this little shed:

Hut 1.jpg
Hut 1.jpg (86.08 KiB) Viewed 8231 times

Not sure what it's for or where it will go, but it's rather fun, as my Grandma would have said. It was designed to use the roof of the bird feeder I mentioned a page or two ago, but I forgot to take the thickness of the cladding into account, so it didn't fit. Luckily I had some slate effect roofing left over from the 'box, so I used that instead. The hut has now joined the filling and painting queue - the weather's slowly improving I think, shouldn't be too long now...

Cheers,

Andrew.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest