Comparision of Burners for Mamod & MSS Locos

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Chris Cairns
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Comparision of Burners for Mamod & MSS Locos

Post by Chris Cairns » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:24 pm

[Mod Note]Files no longer available, topic kept as it still may prove useful without the files.

In response to Fred's request for information about a Meths burner for a Mamod/MSS loco, I've made up this topic (although it does not include Fred's style of burner sadly).

Firstly a short video showing 4 different burners in action (made some time ago now).
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The performance of the MGM Engineering Meths burner was poor in that video due to old wicks which needed to be a bit longer, and a recent water soaking that the burner got as it causes fire balls when the loco rolls over in a derail.

My first Meths Burner, still available from Forest Classics.
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I was told to fit this by bending the flaps on the inside of the solid fuel burner tray and a little filing of the Meths burner would have it fitted snugly. However even with a Dremel type grinder I've barely made a dent in the sides of this burner. It has not worked for me as the burner is too close to the boiler and thus the hot part of the flame is not below or just touching the boiler. However I know that some people have had success with this burner, in particular the late Pete Longfils. I cannot find Pete's photos online but recall he actually cut out the middle of the solid fuel tray and had the Meths burner slung in the middle, thus putting it lower to the boiler, and it worked OK for him.

The MGM Engineering Meths burner.
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This was the 2nd Meths burner I got for a Mamod loco. It was fitted to a Mamod which had several of MGM's Mamod mods. It is filled by injecting Meths into the silicone tube attached to the filler pipe, and the mounting thread for the tank is drilled for a vent hole. Uses a rather small diameter pipe and with 5 wicks the burn time is quite short, however can be refilled whilst lit. Big advantage of this burner is the brass deflectors which have been made to slide between the chassis frames and are shaped to fit the round bottom of the boiler. So no meths blow back melting Sight Glass plastics in the cab (ask ACLR about that problem). Not been used recently but I need to get some of the thinner Long Lasting Wick to restore this burner (this wick has the advantage of sealing the wick tubes after a few burns which seems to prevent meths spillage during derailing rollovers - available via the other Forum, on ebay and here - http://www.mfsteam.com/information.php?product=wick1 ).

2 current Meths burners available for sale are the ones from Dream Steam & PPS (same as the original IP Eng one as used in the IP Jane), and the other design from Chasteam & Forest Classics.

This is the IP Eng Meths Burner, with mounting nut removed for clarity (I assume they were painted when fitted to the IP Jane, as latterly they were sold unpainted by IP Eng).
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And this is the Chasteam Meths Burner, again with mounting nut removed for clarity.
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Although very similar in design and size, the IP Eng one has a slightly bigger tank (couple of mls) than the Chasteam one, and although the wick tubes are about the same position and height (Chasteam one foremost)-
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due to the mounting point used on the Chasteam one it sits further away from the boiler (Chasteam on left).
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The feeder tube is closer to the bottom of the wick tubes on the IP Eng one compared to the Chasteam one (Chasteam one at top).
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Other annoying thing with the Chasteam one is it has a shorter threaded portion to mount it to the rear drag beam, and I've been using needle nose pliers to get the nut fitted tight enough so the burner does not move.

I've been filling my Meths burners using a syringe, and whilst the IP Eng one has an open filler with a collar, the Chasteam one is a near flush mounted hole with threaded vent cap which is mounted further forward and I find it more difficult to fill when fitted without spillage (and suffered a huge fireball because of this spillage some time ago). I guess I'll need to try a using a funnel, particularly if I wish to refill the burner whilst still in steam and lit, without the ensuing fireball.

I appreciate that wick height is very important when conducting comparisons. However in my trials, the IP Eng one burns hotter and lasts longer. So if money was not a factor then I'd buy the IP Eng one. Of course that cannot happen now except on ebay, but Mamodevon (Dream Steam) offers this burner, with bung, syringe & special chassis spacer for £25.99, which is better value than the Chasteam one at £21.75.

With these meths burners you may have wondered what the reference to 'A few minor adjustments with a small file may be required' in the descriptions refered to. This is just to cover the fact that they are mounted using the slot in the rear drag beam and these slots usually need opening out to fit these meths burners (I've had to do it to all my Mamods that I wish to have the option of fitting a meths burner), and the screws holding the side tank body panels to the chassis under the cab floor need shortening so they are flush inside the nuts when tightened up to allow the burner tanks to squeeze between the frames (or mount the screws inside the frames with the nuts outside - however this does not look right in my opinion).

Although I do not recommend using a gas burner with the soft soldered Mamod/MSS boilers (that solder fillet on the bottom is very weak in my opinion as it sits directly in the burner's flame path, and is a common repair on my boiler refurbishments), they are very useful for the silver soldered upgraded boilers from the likes of Mike Chaney, IP Eng, PPS, and of course Dream Steam.

The Cheddar Models gas burner.
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Sadly no longer available new these are excellent burners made by a well known company (they made a modified version for use in Mamod Traction Engine/Steam Roller scuttles as well). Only problem in use I've found is the gas normally lasts longer than the water (really needs a smaller size tank, but regular use of a water top up valve sorts out this problem). Forest Classics now make a similar burner, which is stocked by Dream Steam.

The Merlin Gas Burner.
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A popular burner with Mamod owners, but again no longer for sale. Its biggest problem is the tank is mounted on the cab back by 2 screws & nuts, so some holes are left there when the burner is removed (I've 2 locos that previously had one of these fitted, and a 3rd that is still fitted). Personally I prefer the Cheddar Models one, and so sold my 1st Merlin burner to an enthusiast in Australia. That one actually worked OK, whereas the one fitted to one of my latest Mamods needs some servicing as its flame is a bit erratic. The tank is supposed to have a rollover valve fitted internally to stop gas leaking in a rollover, but not tested this function so far.

There is another gas burner on the market which I think is similar to the one used in the Mamod William. However it uses an unprotected nylon/plastic gas pipe so I would steer well clear of that one - http://www.chasteam.com/gasceramicburners.htm 2nd one down.

Thanks for reading this posting, and I hope it has given you some food for thought. Why not build yourself your own meths burner - once you have learnt how to silver solder (which is the problem I have yet to overcome)!!

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Post by ACLR » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:52 pm

thanks for the post Chris its all good information

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