Time to build a railway...but where?

[Peter Butler]

Thank you all for your Birthday wishes...... you make a happy man feel very old!!!

[Peter Butler]

So.... during 'Lock-down' what is there to do?
I thought I might do a little experiment comparing some similar kits from various manufacturers and decided to use Ffestiniog Bug Boxes as an example.
For those who might not be familiar, here's one I made earlier.....

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This is a scratch-build of one of the seven different designs currently in service on the FR in various guises. The originals date from the early 1860's and were the first passenger coaches built.
I checked out the manufacturer's sites and bought from three to begin with, although not identical vehicles they are representative of the type.
I am not comparing models for accuracy of scale or prototype detail against the original, rather for material use, manufacturing quality, method of construction, and overall appearance. Also for value for money.
For all of the models a basic tool set is required, additional aids make life easier and will be mentioned as they are used.
The basics.....

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First build is..... I.P Engineering, Ffestiniog Railway, First Class, No 2, Passenger Carriage.
Premier Range Kit, ... Price £54.00 (incl. postage).

The kit arrived within days of ordering and arrived in a cushioned package and tightly sealed in a plastic bag. On opening my immediate reaction was that the plywood parts felt damp to the touch. After leaving them out to dry for several hours I discovered they had twisted and curled....

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After speaking with Ivan he offered a replacement kit or refund which would have require me to go to the Post Office and pay postage... something I was not prepared to do under the circumstances. I asked for a replacement roof panel which had a 92mm split along the grain of the veneer (not ply), but that hasn't materialised up to the present time.
The panels were dampened, steam ironed and left under glass sheets for several days and I began the build following the instructions.
My first impression was that parts of the floor and seating panels are not tightly fitted at their connecting areas and it is necessary to support sections to ensure they set squarely. If this isn't achieved nothing else will fit.
The chassis is very basic with no detail. Again it must be set perfectly to make the metal wheels turn smoothly in the brass bearings supplied.....

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I fitted an additional spacer (not supplied) in order to keep the thin ply from bowing in at the centre.
Even after all my work to flatten the sides they still show signs of distortion so an additional bracing panel has been glued below the windows and a strip (neither supplied) at the top above the windows...

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More to follow....

[SeamusOD]

For someone just going through some of these old threads, so much stuff to take in and some incredible work well done
this is the great thing about these php forums this info is always here to read and easy to find no matter how late you come into the thread.
Peter wanted to ask you about the JGY370 geared motor you bought from china have you tried it yet and you mentioned ordering a 90rpm version, would like to orders some and had thought about 150rpm until I seen your post.

[Peter Butler]

I.P Engineering Bug Box continued.....
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As supplied the laser cut parts are still connected to the surrounding material and have to be separated with a sharp knife. This leaves tiny projections which need to be filed and sanded to give a smooth appearance.... very delicate touch required here!
The roof panel (which was split) had to be carefully repaired as well as possible and strengthened to make it usable. Also additional bracing strips have been fitted (not supplied) to give support and shape to the roof panel....

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This shows the roof forming jig which I made and works on bogie coaches too.
Without the additional supports there would be only two, centrally located under the roof, to hold it in shape and requiring the coach end panels to be glued to the roof permanently. There are no side-wall strips to give strength to the join with the roof. This addition makes the roof removable if you prefer.
In addition to the extra roof supports I have glued fine linen to the roof top to give a textured effect and disguise any damage.
The sides are single sheet ply with overlays outside, to fit the glazing sheets supplied I have fitted a groove support beneath the windows inside and an additional similar piece above to hold it in place. Two drop-lights either side are cut to give the impression of being partly open.
Underneath, the chassis slots into the space created by the longitudinal seating arrangement, as per the original. It is at a pre-set height but the body could be raised if required before gluing.
I prefer to paint overlays before fitting to give a better finish, these can be attached to the body with 'Canopy Adhesive' which dries clear and leaves no residue.

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The build is almost complete except for final paint and fittings to be attached. Included in the kit are cast whitemetal Ffestiniog buffers and door handles.
Overall impressions are that the material quality is lacking, very limited number of parts to achieve strength where it is needed, little or no interior detailing to floor, seats, back-rest etc.
The kit does include metal wheels and brass bearings which, if fitted carefully, run smoothly, also, printed instructions with coloured illustrations are adequate.
Value for money.... not great in my opinion, but when finished gives a pleasing appearance at normal viewing distance.

[Peter Butler]

Peter wanted to ask you about the JGY370 geared motor you bought from china have you tried it yet and you mentioned ordering a 90rpm version, would like to orders some and had thought about 150rpm until I seen your post.

Hi Seamus, I haven't found a use for the 90rpm motor as yet, although tests show it to be strong and steady. I did buy a 30rpm motor from the same supplier, which is identical in size etc. and fitted it to a Stephenson's 'Rocket' kit, description is on the first page of my thread, 'Rocket Man' under, Open days and exhibitions. Again, it does the job very well.
Thanks for your kind comments.

[11thHour]

Hi Peter,
On a 'Glass half full" basis, were the ends pre-bent in the right direction?
Looking forward to the other builds.
Tim

[Peter Butler]

Hi Peter,
On a 'Glass half full" basis, were the ends pre-bent in the right direction?
Looking forward to the other builds.
Tim

Unfortunately no!

But...... STOP PRESS....... STOP PRESS..... HOT NEWS.....

Without prior notification I have received a complete new kit in the post from Ivan this morning..... I have telephoned to thank him and express my surprise and gratitude and he assures me customer satisfaction is important.
There have been changes in the manufacture and materials since the previous one and I am looking forward to comparing the two during the build process.

[ge_rik]

Thanks for this comprehensive guide, Peter. Sounds like your first kit had been in storage for a long time and suffered as a result. Reassuring though that Ivan sent you a replacement, gratis.

Rik

[Peter Butler]

Moving on..... this is becoming confusing as the Bug Boxes have been re-built, restored and re-numbered over the years.
The second kit is:
'The Lineside Hut', Carriage No 4. Currently in service with panelled sides, modelled with vertical knife-boarding.
Laser-cut plywood Kit.... (with two build alternatives) £44.50 incl postage.

The kit arrived within days of ordering and came in sturdy cardboard box suitable for vehicle storage following the build.
Printed instructions included with black and white drawings to show how parts should be assembled. Clearly explained with arrows etc.
A large number of well cut plywood parts are included which give a choice of either all glazed windows or four blanked off either side, representing two vehicle types. I chose Number 4.....

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The first assembly is the roof.... sounds odd but the roof is a composite structural section which forms the shape of the end panels later. I found my roof jig came in very useful again for this assembly.....

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Next the side panels, which are in three layers sandwiching the glazing, plus an overlay..... a very sturdy structure indeed. Interior panels are engraved with door and window shapes and above door vents are cut out on all three sections. At this stage only the interior and centre panel are glued together and are attached to the floor and seating assembly. The bench seat has well engraved slatted seat and back......

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At this stage the roof is placed (but not glued) and the assembly left to dry, care must be taken to ensure squareness as slight movement is possible. Elastic bands are wonderful for this purpose. Once dry the curved end panels can be attached, they are over-size to allow for movement during fitting and must be sanded flush afterwards....

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The under-floor has cut-outs to accommodate the Binnie wheels supplied. I never use plastic/nylon wheels but this kit does not have an option to buy metal, so I found a replacement set and brass bushes from my stock box. As supplied, the axle boxes are cut from ply and have no bearings, so there is need for improvement here. The picture below shows the method of fitting wheels which gives good alignment but no possibility of altering the ride height for increased ground clearance, or the possibility of changing the wheels at a later date....

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More to follow.

[Peter Butler]

Slight sequence break here.....
The I.P.Engineering coach is now complete and has worked out better than expected. As described earlier, it did require additional support and strengthening in areas which were still affected by the twisting of the material, which would not normally be the case. The new kit (kindly sent FOC by Ivan) shows none of the original issues and has some parts cut from different material, another build will be reported in due course.
To complete the coach I have added roof vent, crest transfers, lettering, and brass door handle to match the others.......

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[Andrew]

Very interesting, thanks Peter.

I've got a couple of IP bug boxes tucked away somewhere which I ought to dig out sometime. I started them, but sort of lost interest. I'll go back to them at some point. My two bug boxes, the first carriages I scratchbuilt, have a Big Big Train coal truck chassis wedged between the seats to provide the running gear - hardly prototypical, but it works!

Cheers,

Andrew.

[FWLR]

Very nicely done Peter. Thank you for this post, it shows that with a little bit of patience you can make a very nice job from something that wasn't in the best of conditions to start with. I am sure more members will be building after your post...

[ge_rik]

That's turned out well, Peter. I'll be interested to see how the two versions of the same IP Engineering kit compare.

Rik

[andymctractor]

Slight sequence break here.....
The I.P.Engineering coach is now complete and has worked out better than expected. As described earlier, it did require additional support and strengthening in areas which were still affected by the twisting of the material, which would not normally be the case. The new kit (kindly sent FOC by Ivan) shows none of the original issues and has some parts cut from different material, another build will be reported in due course.
To complete the coach I have added roof vent, crest transfers, lettering, and brass door handle to match the others.......
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Peter, where did you get your crests done and do you have to trim round the image to get it to look so neat?
Apologies again if this has been covered before and I've missed it.

[Peter Butler]

Peter, where did you get your crests done and do you have to trim round the image to get it to look so neat?

Hi Andy, I can answer part of your question.... Yes, I do have to trim the edges with a very sharp blade.
But, the name of the supplier is a mystery, I did have an address and I bought them for another project but I will have to do some research to trace more detail for you.
Perhaps someone else can identify them from the pictures below....

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[Peter Butler]

Returning to the 'Lineside Hut' Bug Box,....this is the time to select the carriage type you wish to build, as previously stated, there are either glazed windows or window blanks which can be installed....

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The glazing supplied is amazing, it is precisely cut/moulded into well fitting panels of 2mm and 3mm thickness. The 3mm are the smaller ones which represent fixed glazing, the 2mm ones allow for drop-light frames (supplied) to be fitted, surrounding the glazing and beneath the outer overlay.

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Final detailing includes buffers and roof lamp-top in whitemetal (looks large to me so replaced with vent).
Completed as per the instructions the finished vehicle looks very nice....

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But...... as shown earlier, the axle-boxes are fixed height with no option included to alter the ride height, which is very low indeed... only 5-6mm above rails. I doubt this would be acceptable in many garden railways as track-side obstructions are usually there to catch the unwary. To increase the ride height I fitted 3mm strips between the axle boxes and the underfloor to lower the wheel-sets.

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This has brought the coach into line with the others.
Overall I have thoroughly enjoyed building this kit which has proved to be detailed, very well planned in design and construction, made of superior ply material and gives a choice of two types of coach in one kit.
Value for money.... very good indeed and highly recommended.

Edit.... the sequence of pictures appears different to that in my text... some are duplicated and others out of place. Sorry, they are relevant to the post anyway.

[Peter Butler]

The third of my Bug Box kits is from Jeremy Irwin, he has a list of available kits here.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/107486657 ... 8655086333
The Bug Box I bought is the 'Porthole Carriage' which is laser cut in MDF and available with plastic wheels at £ 34.00 or metal wheels at £ 43.00 (plus £4.50 postage) both include ball axle bearings as standard.
The kit comprises a huge array of precisely cut MDF parts and includes a printed sheet of various other kits with links to You-tube video instructions. These are the most useful building tutorials as there is no chance of misinterpreting any written instruction.

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The first part to construct is the complex chassis which even includes brake-gear, even though it will never be visible! The unit is self contained and fits snugly beneath the seating....

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The ball bearings (included in all of Jerry's kits) ensure the coach rolls with next to no resistance....

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As can be seen, I always use metal wheels on my stock and find it helps with weight and improved performance.
More to follow....

[FWLR]

Hi Peter.

Looking forward to this build has I haven't been able to get one of Jerry's kits yet, lack of funds is the main reason at the moment. They do have a lot of parts and your description for building them are brilliant to see. Has you say he does have videos on which to find out how to build his kits, I did watch one of them some time ago, but you improve the build with what you find and your experience on builds is next to perfection for me.

[Peter Butler]

The final part of the Jerry Irwin build....
Putting the sides together couldn't be easier or more accurate as there are templates included to ensure everything lines up precisely.

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I prefer to paint the sides, ends and overlays before assembly, this makes for a tidier finish....

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The whole thing is 'dry assembled' at this stage with no glue applied, the top is reinforced with another jig (part of which is removed later) to keep everything square....

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Elastic bands are now used to hold the structure together while superglue is used to lock the parts together.
Following removal of the end jigs, the curved end panels (which are also pre-painted) are glued in place with elastic bands to hold them...

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I chose to fit side screens using 2.5mm plastic tube (sliced open) with wire mesh slid in the grooves...

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The roof is assembled with yet more jigs which are simple to use and form an independent and removable roof when finished....

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And finally, the finished coach....

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So, how do I rate this kit?
Just wonderful! I have no issue with the choice of MDF as I never use my stock in wet weather, although I left a piece of the material floating in water for two hours with no appreciable effect. It takes paint far better than ply and gives a far superior finish.
All of the parts are so well cut there is no movement between joints. The cut parts are completely removed from surrounding material. The jigs are included in the kit and make it so much more accurate and easier to assemble. Interior detail is complete right down to planking on the seats and even floorboards with fixing bolt heads visible.
Running characteristics are so much freer and smoother than any other kit, or scratch-build, I have ever made.
Jerry Irwin is certainly the 'Kit-Master' in my opinion, his kits are far superior to any others and extremely good value for money.
It is worth watching one of his videos so you can appreciate the skill and detail he puts into his work. You will become addicted, just like me!

[Peter Butler]

I had an unfortunate experience with the first I.P. Engineering kit which I purchased, it arrived in poor condition and, following conversation with Ivan, instead of a replacement roof which I requested, he sent an entire kit! All credit to Ivan for that, good customer relations in action.
When it arrived I was still building other kits so only glanced at the parts. I noticed there was an MDF roof supplied in this one, so hoped other parts were also upgraded. I am now getting on with the build and am dismayed by the remainder of the kit being identical to the first, in which the very thin curved ends are etched too deeply and are splitting, while the thicker side walls are not cut through from the outer border material. Not a good start.
In fact, the roof, which was the worst part of the original kit is now the best part of the new one.
On the I.P.Engineering site it proudly boasts 'all prototype internal detailing' but the seating has no plank-work engraved at all, and the 'engraved detailing including axleboxes' are as shown below....

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The interior of the side panels are engraved but some of it is now obscured by my method of securing the glazing strips....

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Very little of the side panels will be visible once constructed, however, the seating will be more prominent!
As this is one of the more expensive kits of the type I remain unconvinced of 'value for money' but will continue with the build as before.
I will not be posting more build details on this kit as it has all been said before, however, there will be another Jerry Irwin kit along soon, so watch this space!