RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

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Peter Butler
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:03 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:30 am Hi Peter,

I did read your advice before starting with SBR but as we are in high summer I did not bother covering it up.

?
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:22 pm

Thing is Peter, I did the first part on 04/08 so why has it not dired after five days when we have had nothing but hot weather!

Am I applying too much? I sprayed it all until it was all white in colour.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by laalratty » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:37 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:22 pm Thing is Peter, I did the first part on 04/08 so why has it not dired after five days when we have had nothing but hot weather!

Am I applying too much? I sprayed it all until it was all white in colour.
Interesting, when I did my ballasting last year in warm weather (certainly much cooler then it has been in Kent of late) I found it dried within a few hours, although I did cover it for a week on Peter's advice although my gut feeling was that it didn't need it. I also found that the SBR normally sank into the ballast, and left the top surface clean, so maybe you did use a bit too much. The method I prefer to use is to spray the ballast with a bit of water and washing up liquid, then drop the SBR on as it soaks down better. In over a year there has been virtually no movement and only the odd lump coming loose, despite some very wet weather that used to destroy ballast set in cement quite quickly.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:18 pm

The SBR should be liberally applied neat. I soak the ballast with SBR and then leave covered for several days, in fact I have stated that it should be left covered for as long as possible.
The reason behind this is that although the surface dries quickly and becomes firm, it is just a skin and beneath that the SBR remains liquid for some time. Imagine a tin of solvent based paint with the lid left off..... the surface dries but underneath the paint is still liquid. SBR behaves in a similar way although air drying will be accelerated by the fact that exposure to the atmosphere is spread over a much larger area.
I never use water or other additives as this is likely to lessen the adhesive strength.
Don't despair.... leave it for a while to dry out then apply another lighter coat..... then COVER it!
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:32 am

My gut feeling is that you may have applied too much initially. As Peter says, it does form a skin fairly quickly, so if a bit of rain was enough to cause it to drip out after almost a week, that says to me that there was still liquid SRB underneath. That much SRB on the surface might also explain the excessive shininess that was worrying you.
I finally got around to ballasting my station on Wednesday and having checked the forecast decided to leave it uncovered that night, which turned out to be OK. However, what I forgot was that the last 6" of the headshunt gets caught by overspray from the garden irrigation system and when I looked on Thursday morning, that section had gone liquid and whitish again, although the rest was fine. However by yesterday evening, the headshunt had set again and, on the surface at least, I couldn't tell the difference.
So I wouldn't panic if I were you. Leave it alone, cover it, and look again in a week.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:51 am

So it looks like this when I checked this morning:

20180810_074112-02.jpeg
20180810_074112-02.jpeg (368.23 KiB) Viewed 4797 times
20180810_074055-01.jpeg
20180810_074055-01.jpeg (353.63 KiB) Viewed 4797 times

I have applied far too much SBR, agreed?

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:31 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:51 am So it looks like this when I checked this morning:

I have applied far too much SBR, agreed?
I would say so, yes.
My headshunt looked similar to your pics at this time yesterday morning after getting accidentally sprayed, as I said. I've just taken this picture a few mins ago:
DSC_0001.jpg
DSC_0001.jpg (352.13 KiB) Viewed 4794 times
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Lonsdaler » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:53 am

The photo below is of a section of track where I have been carrying out refurbishing work. The ballast (granodust) and the cess (grit sand) were all laid and SBR'ed on Sunday 5th, and then covered over until yesterday afternoon (9th).
2018-08-10 09.30.41.jpeg
2018-08-10 09.30.41.jpeg (376.29 KiB) Viewed 4785 times
Unfortunately, overnight we have had at least 2 heavy downpours, so I was fearing the worst this morning. However, as you can see, all is still in place, although discoloured (the track on the right retains its original ballast, laid 2 years ago - only the cess is new there). From experience it can take some weeks for that discolouration to stop.
So I would say that your ballast will be fine Tom.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Lonsdaler » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:03 am

Peter Butler wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:03 pm
tom_tom_go wrote: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:30 am Hi Peter,

I did read your advice before starting with SBR but as we are in high summer I did not bother covering it up.

?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh to live in the South East...mmm - maybe not :lol:
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:07 am

Thanks everyone.

I am done fussing over it now so will leave it for a couple of weeks (I am away on holiday anyway) and if it still looks crap by then I will remove it all and start again although I am wondering whether to just box in the track higher so the ballast can remain freely laid and it will not be kicked off by the cats onto the ground.

For people contemplating using SBR, I hope this has been a guide of how NOT to do it!

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:08 am

I will add that despite not covering it up it did set hard within 24 hours due to the hot weather.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:38 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:07 am Thanks everyone.

I am done fussing over it now so will leave it for a couple of weeks (I am away on holiday anyway)
Have a good one then Tom and forget about SBR! Where are you going?
Philip

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:08 am

Going to stay in Hampshire, woodland holiday (glamping I believe we call it now) :mrgreen:

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Just Julie » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:38 pm

Thanks for doing this thread Tom, I now know not to put on too much SBR and to cover it over securely. I haven't ballasted the outside track yet, but I am hoping to do so in the next few weeks. I have started to ballast inside the shed track using pva mixed with water and it turned out fine. :thumbright:

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:39 pm

PVA is what I used indoors with OO scale but I wouldn't use it outside!

Glad you are learning from my mistakes.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by ge_rik » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:03 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:39 pm PVA is what I used indoors with OO scale but I wouldn't use it outside!
Glad you are learning from my mistakes.
I tried external PVA in my early experiments with ballast - it lasted about two years. So far, SBR seems to be holding out far better.

All thanks to Peter B for alerting us all to this marvellous stuff.

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Re:

Post by philipy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:16 pm

Tom,
Sorry for raising the dead, but back in 2016 you inserted this little throw away line in one of your magnetic un-coupling posts:
tom_tom_go wrote: Mon May 30, 2016 5:18 pm With the addition of ball bearings attached to the modified choppers
Ummm... just how do you attach the ball bearing? In my experience they are just about un-drillable and I wouldn't have though glue would be enough to attach a ball to the end of a wire for more than a few seconds?
Philip

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:04 pm

Hi Phil,

I don't use ball bearings anymore as I have found using metal wire or cut down paper clips is sufficient if using neodymium magnets attached to the track (use these if you are going to play about with this type of uncoupling, normal magnets are not strong enough). I now glue plastic beads to the ends of the wire to mimic a counter weight.

However, if you want to use bearings then clamp one in a vice and file one side so it creates a flat surface. Apply solder to the flat side of the bearing then solder your piece of wire to it.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:08 pm

Cheers Tom.
I notice that you use 75mm long magnets, do they really need to be that long, I'd have thought 50 or 60mm would be long enough?
Philip

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:18 pm

The length of the magnet gives you some margin to stop the loco in the right spot. The first magnets I used were 25mm long and it was a right pain in the back end to uncouple successfully each time without going back and forth.

I guess if you are going to be using electric mice then you have the control so a shorter magnet may work but if using a live steamer (particularly one without an inertia device) then it will become frustrating.

What are your intentions?

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