A tiny G gauge indoor layout

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gregh
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by gregh » Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:07 am

Part 4
Lower station Area

I have decided that the upper level station will be called “Claymine” (because there is a clay pit there). And the lower station will be called “Pottsville” (because there is a pottery factory there !).

The Pottsville station area has virtually the same track layout as Claymine, with an engine shed added. Both have short passenger platforms, so a passenger service can be run, just to add interest to the 'clay train' workings.
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link to video of first testing of operations... https://youtu.be/qGn7SvlEN2I
I have got to the point where trackwork is finished. So it can rain all it wants now while I finish the scenery etc. I have installed low ‘walls’ around the shelf edges to catch any derailments.

I had three mates around to test out finished the track with their small locos and it turned into a really enjoyable time, and they all want to repeat the fun. (And of course they had many suggestions on how to extend the line outside the shed – not likely, I still have 100m of the garden Sandstone and Termite track to maintain)

here’s the video link……….. https://youtu.be/GrXwD5A6MV0

I have enjoyed going back to indoor layout building with the 3-dimensional 'surveying' needed. I look forward to again building mountains and scenery and buildings without regard to making them all waterproof. After that I will make some shorter wheelbase wagons (2 to 3") as they will look better. (the existing 4" wheelbase wagons really need to be compensated or sprung to run reliably.)

Now how is the clay transported from the mine? Shovelled onto small piles on flat wagons? In open wagons? Or in maybe in bags?
Greg from downunder.
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by Andrew » Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:51 am

That operating session looked a lot of fun! I really like the little red brake van...

Don't know about on your side of the planet, but here clay travelled in "hoods", four wheel open wagons with tarpaulins over to keep the clay moist. What clay traffic is left goes in covered hoppers these days.

Really looking forward to seeing the scenery go in...

Andrew

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by philipy » Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:36 am

Huh! Typical, 4 blokes with nothing better to do than play trains!! Dunno what the world is coming to! :ugeek

Absolutely superb. I realise that this is permanent but actually it would make a fantastic exhibition layout that would keepthe punters entertained for hours.
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by GTB » Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:31 am

gregh wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:07 am Now how is the clay transported from the mine? Shovelled onto small piles on flat wagons? In open wagons? Or in maybe in bags?
In Oz, my money would be on the clay being carried between pit and works in either V-skips, or US pattern wooden side tippers. Kilns need lots of fuel, so your railway will also need to carry in firewood and/or coal.

I doubt any Aust. pottery would have been big enough to need a railway to carry clay, unless it made bricks as well.

Both my grandfathers were brickmakers and one of the brick works also made pottery, but the brick works in that area didn't have tramways. The clay came from the clay pits some miles away by road, originally in horse drawn drays, in later years it went by road truck.

The Newbold Bros. industrial refractory factory down at Thirroul might be a good prototype for you to look at. They had quarries and clay pits scattered around the landscape, at least a couple of of which had tramways and they used coastal shipping at one time. I went through the works in the late '80s in BHP days and the internal tramway was long gone by then. The place was a working museum piece at that time, no idea if the new owners have modernised it by now.

Anyway, there have been a couple of articles with photos covering Newbold operations in 'Light Railways' over the years. The LRRSA have digitised the back issues and made them freely available online.

http://media.lrrsa.org.au/amri250/Light ... ys_250.pdf
http://media.lrrsa.org.au/amas205/Light ... ys_205.pdf

There have also been articles on other brick works in Light Railways. If you go to the LRRSA home page and put 'brick works' in the search field on the right, it will turn up a list of articles that will keep you occupied for a while. The first will be Whitemans in Perth, which had a loco powered tramway running between the claypit and the brick works.

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by ge_rik » Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:06 pm

The Pentewan Railway in Cornwall used to transport China clay in open wagons. They then offloaded them into ships on elevated trestles.
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by Andrew » Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:19 pm

I'd forgotten about the Pentewan Railway! And that the "hoods" were for transporting clay over hundreds of miles, not along a short industrial branch line - you're right, I reckon skips, tubs or uncovered opens are much more likely...

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by Scrat » Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:49 pm

At 3:25 ist looks as if the wagon corners are touching in the curve.

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by GAP » Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:34 pm

The test running looked like a heap of fun.
Tight curves and sharp incline are what make short narrow gauge lines so interesting.
4 blokes crammed into a 10x10 garden shed in summer may get a bit intense though.
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by gregh » Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:12 am

GAP wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:34 pm 4 blokes crammed into a 10x10 garden shed in summer may get a bit intense though.
I was only thinking today, when I had to keep the door closed, that 'this won't work for 4 people in summer!"
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by gregh » Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:13 am

Scrat wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:49 pm At 3:25 it looks as if the wagon corners are touching in the curve.
I use just chain and hook couplings, so I have to have very long chains! In one of the videos you will hear me commenting on Keith's train with Kadee's and how they actually worked when I didn't think they would. (It's because his wagons are shorter than mine.)
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by gregh » Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:32 am

Thanks everyone for their ideas and suggestions for clay wagons.
GTB's references will keep me busy for a while.

One of the good things about running my own railway and not a prototype, is that I can decide what I will do from all those options.
The pic that Rik gave showed open waggons and I can't decide if they were bags or just pointed piles of clay.

As my mine is a tiny affair and I have no space to actually model a wagon loader/ unloader, that has to be just either on a back scene or in my imagination. I need a simple idea to be able to put a load into the wagon and take it out, by hand. Just so it is obvious where the train is going.

When I was planning the idea, I remembered the Driving Creek Railway in NZ where the potter built a 15" gauge railway up the mountainside to get clay. (later it became a tourist attraction)

This video at about 1:30, shows he just used bags for his clay. https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/barry ... otter-1970

So I have 3 options to ponder at present.
1. low sided open wagons with a lift out load of bags (how do I make them???)
2. flat wagon with lift off load of bags (as per Driving Creek)
3. low sided wagon with lift off tarpaulin 'hood'. This may be too fragile to lift off and move around.


GTB's idea that the pottery needs firewood is something I hadn't thought of and may be a another set of wagons with lift off loads too. And you are right in that my 'pottery' will also have a brickworks on the backscene. Maybe what I called the Goods shed siding will be a firewood siding. Could allow some very 'original' looking loading!
Greg from downunder.
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by ge_rik » Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:17 am

The railway in that video is fascinating. The trestle looks very impressive for such a niche railway

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by gregh » Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:44 pm

ge_rik wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:17 am The railway in that video is fascinating. The trestle looks very impressive for such a niche railway
The Driving Creek Railway is a real tourist attraction now. We visited about 20 years ago and the railway then didn't go to the top of the hill as shown in this video.
https://drivingcreek.nz/activities/driv ... way-tours/

More ideas - his use of the railway within the pottery to move big pots. I have many (scale) big pots of Paulines. Maybe they could be moved by train too. :)
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by GTB » Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:12 am

gregh wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:32 am So I have 3 options to ponder at present.
1. low sided open wagons with a lift out load of bags (how do I make them???)
2. flat wagon with lift off load of bags (as per Driving Creek)
3. low sided wagon with lift off tarpaulin 'hood'. This may be too fragile to lift off and move around.
No large operation in their right mind would transport clay in bags, although I can see how a one-man operation might do it for ease of handling.

Clay doesn't need to be kept dry under a tarp between pit and pottery, as the first operation in the factory is to crush it and add water. The mainline clay trains in Cornwall likely carried the purified china clay under 'hoods' to stop the UK climate washing it out of the wagon before it got to the customer. The drying beds had roofs over them for the same reason.

The front cover photo on this 'Light Railways' link shows a loaded train in the pit at Whitemans brick works in Perth.

http://media.lrrsa.org.au/cana204/Light ... ys_204.pdf

Clay as it comes out of the ground looks like any other load of dirt and it needs processing before it can be made into bricks, pots, pipes, etc.

Clay isn't a wagon load I've ever had to make, but I'd make it much the same way as a removable coal load. If you still have some of your wife's potters clay, let a block dry out and then crush it into suitable size pieces. Otherwise, tint some plaster with cement colour, cast a block and crush that when dry. Line the wagon with a piece of Glad Wrap, drop in a block of styrofoam and glue the load down with diluted PVA with a couple of drops of dishwashing detergent in it. The Glad Wrap acts as a release agent and stops the load being permanently glued into the wagon.

It occurs to me that a suitable load of finished goods would be earthenware drain pipes, some potteries made those in the days before plastic took over.

If the clay on my block is any indication, the clay pit might also need an explosives van during summer........

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by gregh » Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:07 am

GTB wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:31 am
In Oz, my money would be on the clay being carried between pit and works in either V-skips, or US pattern wooden side tippers. Kilns need lots of fuel, so your railway will also need to carry in firewood and/or coal.

Anyway, there have been a couple of articles with photos covering Newbold operations in 'Light Railways' over the years. The LRRSA have digitised the back issues and made them freely available online.

http://media.lrrsa.org.au/amri250/Light ... ys_250.pdf
http://media.lrrsa.org.au/amas205/Light ... ys_205.pdf

Regards,
Graeme
Thanks for the links. I remember the Thirroul works but didn't know there was a quarry there. I know the Bannister head tramway route well The pic of lumps of silica in low sided open wagons in the magazine, is probably a way to go for me. And similarly wood stacked vertically in the same wagons makes sense. I do have some V hoppers but the small wheels (flanges) won't run on the pottery line, so will have to re-wheel them someday.
Thanks for all your ideas. Very helpful
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by GTB » Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:08 pm

gregh wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:07 am Thanks for all your ideas. Very helpful
The LRRSA 'Light Railways' archive is a great resource for anyone modelling Aust. industrial railways.

It's also been an interesting trip back into family history for me.

Good luck with the project. It should keep you off the streets for a while........ ;)

Graeme

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by gregh » Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:32 am

Having completed track laying, it's time to actually build some scenery. Maybe this is not the forum for this as it is no longer a garden railway, but I'll continue the progress update.

I needed a 10" high vertical wall at one location, so following Rik's blog of how he built his viaduct from individual balsa blocks, I used his method. I used big 'sandstone' blocks 20mm high and cut varying lengths from 20 to 60mm, then started gluing onto plywood. Here's the final Great Wall of Balsa.
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The other side of the track called for a rock cutting so I wandered down my backyard to the big pine tree and chiselled some bark of it. Then the tedious job of gluing layers on top of one another began. But it has worked out well (to my eyes anyhow).

I'm not sure I'll use the pine bark method much more as it is very slow, waiting for the glue to dry. But I do have an infinite supply of bark!
I have now tried first gluing the bark to a piece of thin black cardboard, on the bench - much easier.
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I filled in behind the bark with plaster of paris, coloured brown with cement oxide.

Then the need for a 'grass' covering arose. Youtube has LOTS of videos on the use of the new (to me) static grass. To apply this you need a static applicator which you can buy for $100's or you can make one from a cheap 'Bug Zapper" thing. To cut a long story short, I built one and it didn't work! ($10 wasted!) So I just sprinkled the 'static grass' onto white PVA glue and pushed on with my fingers. So my grass all lies down! I'm going to try a rubber balloon static to see if it makes the grass stand up.

Here's a couple of pics of the results..
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And this tunnel portal is carved styrofoam, covered with thin plaster. (internal walls not done yet)
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Now I am still looking for non-clumping, no-odour cat litter so I can ballast the track.
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by ge_rik » Mon Dec 19, 2022 6:59 am

That is looking good, Greg. The pine bark is remarkably effective as a rock face.

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by GTB » Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:18 am

The cutting made from pine bark looks good. How did you remove the resident wildlife in the bark? The pines around here are full of all sorts of creepy-crawlies.......

There are circuits around for making static grass applicators. I've seen one fearsome device in the past that was built around a car ignition coil. This one lists Australian sources for the bits.

https://www.bouldercreekrailroad.com/ar ... -version-2
gregh wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:32 am Now I am still looking for non-clumping, no-odour cat litter so I can ballast the track.
The cheap clay based non-clumping cat litters are just calcined clay, with no other ingredients. Woolies or Coles own brand non-clumping clay litters should work for ballast and are a lot cheaper than buying oil absorbent from Repco. Since it's clay you could probably sieve out the larger bits to use as wagon loads from the clay pit.

Graeme

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by Andrew » Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:26 am

ge_rik wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 6:59 am That is looking good, Greg. The pine bark is remarkably effective as a rock face.
It is, isn't it?

Love the shots of the loco creeping round the bends, and those tight clearances...

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