A tiny G gauge indoor layout

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gregh
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by gregh » Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:32 am

Thanks everyone for their ideas and suggestions for clay wagons.
GTB's references will keep me busy for a while.

One of the good things about running my own railway and not a prototype, is that I can decide what I will do from all those options.
The pic that Rik gave showed open waggons and I can't decide if they were bags or just pointed piles of clay.

As my mine is a tiny affair and I have no space to actually model a wagon loader/ unloader, that has to be just either on a back scene or in my imagination. I need a simple idea to be able to put a load into the wagon and take it out, by hand. Just so it is obvious where the train is going.

When I was planning the idea, I remembered the Driving Creek Railway in NZ where the potter built a 15" gauge railway up the mountainside to get clay. (later it became a tourist attraction)

This video at about 1:30, shows he just used bags for his clay. https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/barry ... otter-1970

So I have 3 options to ponder at present.
1. low sided open wagons with a lift out load of bags (how do I make them???)
2. flat wagon with lift off load of bags (as per Driving Creek)
3. low sided wagon with lift off tarpaulin 'hood'. This may be too fragile to lift off and move around.


GTB's idea that the pottery needs firewood is something I hadn't thought of and may be a another set of wagons with lift off loads too. And you are right in that my 'pottery' will also have a brickworks on the backscene. Maybe what I called the Goods shed siding will be a firewood siding. Could allow some very 'original' looking loading!
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by ge_rik » Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:17 am

The railway in that video is fascinating. The trestle looks very impressive for such a niche railway

Rik
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by gregh » Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:44 pm

ge_rik wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:17 am The railway in that video is fascinating. The trestle looks very impressive for such a niche railway
The Driving Creek Railway is a real tourist attraction now. We visited about 20 years ago and the railway then didn't go to the top of the hill as shown in this video.
https://drivingcreek.nz/activities/driv ... way-tours/

More ideas - his use of the railway within the pottery to move big pots. I have many (scale) big pots of Paulines. Maybe they could be moved by train too. :)
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by GTB » Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:12 am

gregh wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:32 am So I have 3 options to ponder at present.
1. low sided open wagons with a lift out load of bags (how do I make them???)
2. flat wagon with lift off load of bags (as per Driving Creek)
3. low sided wagon with lift off tarpaulin 'hood'. This may be too fragile to lift off and move around.
No large operation in their right mind would transport clay in bags, although I can see how a one-man operation might do it for ease of handling.

Clay doesn't need to be kept dry under a tarp between pit and pottery, as the first operation in the factory is to crush it and add water. The mainline clay trains in Cornwall likely carried the purified china clay under 'hoods' to stop the UK climate washing it out of the wagon before it got to the customer. The drying beds had roofs over them for the same reason.

The front cover photo on this 'Light Railways' link shows a loaded train in the pit at Whitemans brick works in Perth.

http://media.lrrsa.org.au/cana204/Light ... ys_204.pdf

Clay as it comes out of the ground looks like any other load of dirt and it needs processing before it can be made into bricks, pots, pipes, etc.

Clay isn't a wagon load I've ever had to make, but I'd make it much the same way as a removable coal load. If you still have some of your wife's potters clay, let a block dry out and then crush it into suitable size pieces. Otherwise, tint some plaster with cement colour, cast a block and crush that when dry. Line the wagon with a piece of Glad Wrap, drop in a block of styrofoam and glue the load down with diluted PVA with a couple of drops of dishwashing detergent in it. The Glad Wrap acts as a release agent and stops the load being permanently glued into the wagon.

It occurs to me that a suitable load of finished goods would be earthenware drain pipes, some potteries made those in the days before plastic took over.

If the clay on my block is any indication, the clay pit might also need an explosives van during summer........

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by gregh » Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:07 am

GTB wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:31 am
In Oz, my money would be on the clay being carried between pit and works in either V-skips, or US pattern wooden side tippers. Kilns need lots of fuel, so your railway will also need to carry in firewood and/or coal.

Anyway, there have been a couple of articles with photos covering Newbold operations in 'Light Railways' over the years. The LRRSA have digitised the back issues and made them freely available online.

http://media.lrrsa.org.au/amri250/Light ... ys_250.pdf
http://media.lrrsa.org.au/amas205/Light ... ys_205.pdf

Regards,
Graeme
Thanks for the links. I remember the Thirroul works but didn't know there was a quarry there. I know the Bannister head tramway route well The pic of lumps of silica in low sided open wagons in the magazine, is probably a way to go for me. And similarly wood stacked vertically in the same wagons makes sense. I do have some V hoppers but the small wheels (flanges) won't run on the pottery line, so will have to re-wheel them someday.
Thanks for all your ideas. Very helpful
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by GTB » Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:08 pm

gregh wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:07 am Thanks for all your ideas. Very helpful
The LRRSA 'Light Railways' archive is a great resource for anyone modelling Aust. industrial railways.

It's also been an interesting trip back into family history for me.

Good luck with the project. It should keep you off the streets for a while........ ;)

Graeme

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by gregh » Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:32 am

Having completed track laying, it's time to actually build some scenery. Maybe this is not the forum for this as it is no longer a garden railway, but I'll continue the progress update.

I needed a 10" high vertical wall at one location, so following Rik's blog of how he built his viaduct from individual balsa blocks, I used his method. I used big 'sandstone' blocks 20mm high and cut varying lengths from 20 to 60mm, then started gluing onto plywood. Here's the final Great Wall of Balsa.
the wall (1).JPG
the wall (1).JPG (257.6 KiB) Viewed 3568 times
The other side of the track called for a rock cutting so I wandered down my backyard to the big pine tree and chiselled some bark of it. Then the tedious job of gluing layers on top of one another began. But it has worked out well (to my eyes anyhow).

I'm not sure I'll use the pine bark method much more as it is very slow, waiting for the glue to dry. But I do have an infinite supply of bark!
I have now tried first gluing the bark to a piece of thin black cardboard, on the bench - much easier.
bark on cardboard.JPG
bark on cardboard.JPG (181.54 KiB) Viewed 3568 times

I filled in behind the bark with plaster of paris, coloured brown with cement oxide.

Then the need for a 'grass' covering arose. Youtube has LOTS of videos on the use of the new (to me) static grass. To apply this you need a static applicator which you can buy for $100's or you can make one from a cheap 'Bug Zapper" thing. To cut a long story short, I built one and it didn't work! ($10 wasted!) So I just sprinkled the 'static grass' onto white PVA glue and pushed on with my fingers. So my grass all lies down! I'm going to try a rubber balloon static to see if it makes the grass stand up.

Here's a couple of pics of the results..
hand sprinkled (0).JPG
hand sprinkled (0).JPG (363.32 KiB) Viewed 3568 times
rocks (3).JPG
rocks (3).JPG (447.29 KiB) Viewed 3568 times
rocks (1).JPG
rocks (1).JPG (295.12 KiB) Viewed 3568 times


And this tunnel portal is carved styrofoam, covered with thin plaster. (internal walls not done yet)
tunnel.JPG
tunnel.JPG (138.04 KiB) Viewed 3568 times
Now I am still looking for non-clumping, no-odour cat litter so I can ballast the track.
Greg from downunder.
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by ge_rik » Mon Dec 19, 2022 6:59 am

That is looking good, Greg. The pine bark is remarkably effective as a rock face.

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by GTB » Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:18 am

The cutting made from pine bark looks good. How did you remove the resident wildlife in the bark? The pines around here are full of all sorts of creepy-crawlies.......

There are circuits around for making static grass applicators. I've seen one fearsome device in the past that was built around a car ignition coil. This one lists Australian sources for the bits.

https://www.bouldercreekrailroad.com/ar ... -version-2
gregh wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:32 am Now I am still looking for non-clumping, no-odour cat litter so I can ballast the track.
The cheap clay based non-clumping cat litters are just calcined clay, with no other ingredients. Woolies or Coles own brand non-clumping clay litters should work for ballast and are a lot cheaper than buying oil absorbent from Repco. Since it's clay you could probably sieve out the larger bits to use as wagon loads from the clay pit.

Graeme

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by Andrew » Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:26 am

ge_rik wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 6:59 am That is looking good, Greg. The pine bark is remarkably effective as a rock face.
It is, isn't it?

Love the shots of the loco creeping round the bends, and those tight clearances...

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by Peter Butler » Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:57 am

Wonderful scenic effects from basic materials, brilliant! I tried cat-litter as ballast many years ago..... it's still wet!
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by ge_rik » Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:42 pm

GTB wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:18 am The cutting made from pine bark looks good. How did you remove the resident wildlife in the bark? The pines around here are full of all sorts of creepy-crawlies.......

There are circuits around for making static grass applicators. I've seen one fearsome device in the past that was built around a car ignition coil. This one lists Australian sources for the bits.

https://www.bouldercreekrailroad.com/ar ... -version-2
gregh wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:32 am Now I am still looking for non-clumping, no-odour cat litter so I can ballast the track.
The cheap clay based non-clumping cat litters are just calcined clay, with no other ingredients. Woolies or Coles own brand non-clumping clay litters should work for ballast and are a lot cheaper than buying oil absorbent from Repco. Since it's clay you could probably sieve out the larger bits to use as wagon loads from the clay pit.

Graeme
I found a UK source for the negative ion generator if anyone here fancies giving it a go. I know some forumites have indoor layouts as well as their outdoor railways.
https://www.railwayscenics.com/negative ... -2535.html.

Really surprising how cheap it is compared to the cost of an commercially produced applicator


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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by GAP » Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:34 pm

That is impressive Greg.
The bark idea might be something I should investigate. I can get 10L of bark for $4.00 from the local landscape supply place down the road.
For outside maybe I could use Aqua deck decking oil as a sort of preservative (Hmm food for thought)
Graeme
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by gregh » Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:21 pm

Graeme - I have seen videos using the neg ion generator potted component. But all my searches for 'negative ion generators' just come up with fully constructed units.

The neg ion generator in the Boulder Creek video, as being sold by Oatley Electronics - no such thing appears when I search the Oatley site. Maybe no longer sold.
Very few of the 'how to ' videos, incl the Boulder creek ones, actually show the finished product working.

Re kitty litter. I have tried Woolies and 2 IGA's with no success. Will keep looking. Then I have to colour it. How? Yes, if I can get it, the larger pieces will make good 'clay' loads.
I am even considering smashing up some of Pauline's unfinished, unfired work as I do with coal.
Or maybe pour some thin plaster onto gladwrap and then break it up.
I'll get there, someday! Plenty of time!

No problems with spiders etc in the bark, just webs. Maybe all our rain washed them away.

-------------------------------
Rik - thanks for the link to a negative ion generator in UK, Interesting in that there is only 1 HV lead. Where would the 'ground' be connected. Seems that maybe the 12V neg is the HV neg as well. Also the claim that it needs a 12V, 2A supply. If the output is 3.5kV, then the HV must put out 7 mA - pretty dangerous stuff.
I wonder what the spec "Output Voltage: DC-3.5KV-0.5KV" means

(BTW, the one I built output measures 1.5kVdc, and runs off 3V.)

----------------------------------------------------------
Andrew - yes I like the pic of the loco in the cutting. The effect I am looking for. Some of those clearances are too 'close' (2mm to the great wall of balsa in places). But all the locos I want to run, DO fit. Too bad about visiting locos!
One advantage of the pine bark is that if it fouls the train I can just snap bits of with my fingers or pliers.
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by gregh » Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:50 am

Some SLOW progress on the Claymine Branch.


A steel girder bridge has crossed the future river. Made from styrene sheet. Piers are polystyrene covered in plaster.
girder bridge (1).jpg
girder bridge (1).jpg (271.4 KiB) Viewed 3274 times


The plan is for a lake and waterfall like this. Work is progressing using pine bark as the rocks for the waterfall gorge and along the river.
aerial lake draw.JPG
aerial lake draw.JPG (349.74 KiB) Viewed 3274 times


Pottsville station has appeared (styrofoam).
You can see the under-shelf LED lights I made.
And someday there will be the 'pottery works' under the shelf, behind the train.
pottsville stn.JPG
pottsville stn.JPG (281.51 KiB) Viewed 3274 times


A swamp has been created to test the idea of using a clear polyeurethane paint as water.
swamp.JPG
swamp.JPG (334.96 KiB) Viewed 3274 times

Clay tipper wagons. This one I tried using cat litter to represent the clay. Not Wholly successful. Waiting on some more 3D printed wheels to complete some more wagons.
clay tipper.JPG
clay tipper.JPG (271.57 KiB) Viewed 3274 times
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by philipy » Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:21 am

Some lovely little scenic details there Greg. Looking forward to more as you progress.
Philip

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by FWLR » Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:51 am

Just caught up with your thread Greg. It's brilliant and some fantastic ideas with the turntable. Hope now to see more of what will be very interesting for many i'am sure. It is for me... :thumbright:

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by GAP » Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:05 am

Lovely work on the scenery Greg.
Where did you get the quarry backdrop from?

Instead of kitty litter look at Perlite you can colour it by using artists acrylics from a $2 shop;
-just dilute the paint not to much
-put in the perlite
-mix it
-spread it out to dry
-then break it up.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/brunnings-5 ... lsrc=aw.ds

It is very light but not as light as polystyrene.
Andrew used it on his On3 layout in his shed and I used it on my old HO one as a rockslide.
Graeme
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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by Andrew » Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:24 am

Thanks for the update Greg, I'm glad you're making progress - which looks pretty rapid to me! I'm really enjoying this project, which is giving me ideas for the future. Actually, as I type this in my office at work I'm looking around and wondering what I could get away with...

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Re: A tiny G gauge indoor layout

Post by ge_rik » Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:33 pm

Great progress being made there, Greg. That pine bark looks really realistic. Looking forward to seeing how the waterfall develops.

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