The Circle Line

A place for the discussion of garden railways and any garden style/scale portable and/or indoor layouts
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tom_tom_go
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Re: The Circle Line

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:22 pm

When I sprung my points in 16mm scale I just used electrical wire placed under the track as a tension rod.

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by Busted Bricks » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:30 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:21 pm Join us (in a zombie toned voice)...
Tempted but would probably go 7 1/4" if that were the case. I have close to 2.5 acre land to build on. Affording track would be an issue but I would probaly weld it up from rectangular lengths of steel. Then there is the lack of spare time.....

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by FWLR » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:00 am

Nice coach there. Looks the part. :thumbright:

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by DonW » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:03 am

Although we have the room the ground slopes quite steeply.

Don

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by idlemarvel » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:00 am

DonW wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:03 am Although we have the room the ground slopes quite steeply.

Don
That would be a problem. It's hard enough work laying 5" track on the flat, to have to build embankments and cuttings as well would be a tremendous amount of time and labour if you were doing it, or money if you contracted it out.
Dave Miller
currently building the 5" gauge Circle Line

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by idlemarvel » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:00 pm

I took advantage of today's nice weather to install my point. It wasn't too bad a job. I cut out the portion of track corresponding to where I wanted the points to go, squared off the ends with a file, drilled a couple of holes in each end rail to take the fish plate bolts (the points came pre-drilled), scraped the ballast off to "bottom of sleeper" depth, bolted it in place and levelled it off. Picture below:
IMG_20190823_184110.jpg
IMG_20190823_184110.jpg (431.09 KiB) Viewed 6083 times
I have tested it running on the main line, fast and slow, forward and reverse, and it seems to be fine, no hint of derailments! The removed curve piece is shown top right. Tomorrow's job it to attach the sidings panel (top left). I will put a slight down slope away from the point so that any rolling stock left in the siding will tend to hit the buffers rather than roll onto the main line.

I have a plan for a point lever but I think I will start another thread for that.
Dave Miller
currently building the 5" gauge Circle Line

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by DonW » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:02 am

Nice job there Dave. Looks like a perfect fit.

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by FWLR » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:39 am

Neat job Dave, very professional.

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by idlemarvel » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:53 pm

Thanks for the comments Don and Rod, much appreciated.

I have installed the sidings track panel and it now looks like this, just big enough to fit a bogie wagon / driving truck.
As I said yesterday I have put a gentle slope on the siding so the truck rolls gently into the buffers (circled yellow).
IMG_20190824_130438.jpg
IMG_20190824_130438.jpg (333.62 KiB) Viewed 6036 times
The buffer stop is a kit from PNP. It is more 1:12 scale so a bit small for my 1:6 railway, but it does the job. It comes with a small section of track which is attached to the siding but the fish plates are not bolted in place, so if there is a crash into the buffers it won't disrupt the points (hopefully).
Dave Miller
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Re: The Circle Line

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:32 pm

Great fit there Dave, I have been looking at PNP track myself just so I can have a small run up and down my drive or in the garden.

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by idlemarvel » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:50 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:32 pm Great fit there Dave, I have been looking at PNP track myself just so I can have a small run up and down my drive or in the garden.
Thanks Tom. The PNP plastic sleepers and chairs self assembly is pretty good and easy to put together if a little tedious if you have a lot of panels to do. I have a few tips on assembly if you do go down that particular road.
Dave Miller
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Re: The Circle Line

Post by FWLR » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:18 am

Really well done Dave. That looks so good, I am imaging it to be a real standard gauge when I saw that photo.

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by idlemarvel » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:37 am

FWLR wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:18 am Really well done Dave. That looks so good, I am imaging it to be a real standard gauge when I saw that photo.
Thanks! :thumbup:
Dave Miller
currently building the 5" gauge Circle Line

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by DonW » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:42 pm

Looks good. I can see your concern about the turnout. There is some weight in your stock no doubt. The line is really coming together.

Don

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by idlemarvel » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:47 pm

WARNING: LONG POSTING

After running a 5" gauge line for a few weeks now, I thought I would write down some reflections on building the Circle Line.

1. Building a 5" gauge railway, even a mini 66 foot long one like mine, is no small task. I haven't diligently recorded the hours but it's taken all my free time from mid November 2018, when I bought the garden plot next door, to mid July 2019, that's eight months, probably 600 hours. That does include clearing the land from decades of neglect, which took the first three months. If I wasn't retired I don't know how I would have found 20 hours a week. I spent all 2018 doing work on the house, so I got a "free pass" to spend my time this year doing what I wanted. There are still many household things that need doing of course, and occasional pieces of work, but in general I have been able to devote my time to building the railway. You could do the same work over more elapsed time, but it would be very dispiriting to think that your first ride on the railway might be years away.

I joke that my Circle Line is like an LGB starter set only bigger; an oval of track, loco, wagon. The advantage of starter sets is that you get some initial results quickly, so that you can then plan what you really want to build but still play trains. Not so with 5" gauge. Where does the time go? Mainly on the ground-works. Station platforms have to accommodate real people not 1:19 scale models. For the trackbed you have to dig quite a wide trench, line it with weed membrane, lay down some sub-base, lay a course of bricks alongside, and make sure it is all flat and level, before you can even think about laying some track and ballasting it(*). These are the same sort of things you do when laying 32mm track, but this is 4 times the size, 16 x the area and 64 x the volume/weight. Depending on how flat and level your ground is that might mean moving tons of earth, and laying tons of ballast, so you need to be quite fit.
(*) this is using the "Ride on Railways" track laying method, see http://www.rideonrailways.co.uk/paul/bu ... age13.html

2. Ground level vs elevated track. When I was first contemplating this venture I was told by several people that you need an elevated track with passengers sitting astride, that ground level would be too unstable unless you went to 7 1/4" gauge or greater. This was a worry to me but having seen several YouTube videos I decided to press ahead, and anyway with reference to the point above, building an elevated track would be even more work. As it happens my fears were groundless (hah!), passengers, adults and children, seem quite content and no-one has fallen off yet. Not to say that there haven't been derailments, plenty in the early days, but that is more down to the track geometry...

3. Which leads me nicely into tight radius curves. I have limited space with a 21 feet x 26 feet plot and a 10x12 shed in the middle. It was difficult to even get 9 feet radius curves and still have enough clearance. This means I have to have very short wheelbase locos and wagons, bogie wagons really as a 4 wheel wagon would probably be too unstable for someone to sit on. Even with short wheelbase bogies there is a lot of friction, and in the early days lots of derailments as the outer wheels try to climb up the track. With lots of trackbed fettling to get the track as level as possible, I haven't had a derailment for a couple of weeks now, except when someone tried to get off while the train was moving. I did try easing the gauge by 1/32" but that seemed to make the problem worse. The wheels do grind a bit and I can imagine both track and wheels wearing out more quickly over the years than if I'd had more gentle curves.

4. I could have avoided such tight curves if I had gone for an "end to end" layout, and in the planning phase I did make several track plans with various options for stations and sidings with relatively luxuriant 12 foot curves. But unless you have the space for a run around (at least 5 feet x 50 feet) then you will be running trains backwards half the time. With rigid couplings this is possible but a bit of a pain and not very prototypical. The other problem with "end to end" is that unless you have a long distance between the ends you are forever driving and not really enjoying the view. The clincher for me was that I wanted my grandchildren to be able to drive the trains. As the eldest is not four yet the idea of getting him to stop before hitting the buffers every time seemed remote. So continuous layout it was and I would strongly encourage anyone else thinking of going for ride on railways to do the same, unless they have a garden the size of a small park!

5. An engine shed with track access is a must. On my line I can park the loco and wagon in the shed, turn it off, lock the doors and leave it charging (if necessary) overnight. The startup time is then less than a minute to open the doors, turn it on and off we go. This is with battery power of course, with live steam the work to start it up and shut it down is let's say significantly longer. Even so having a shed to park it in rather than trying to manhandle it into a locked shed or garage is a massive advantage.

6. With such a small circuit it is important to limit the view so the passengers can't see the whole circuit at once; it makes them believe there is more to it. Having a shed in the middle helps. Trackside paraphernalia makes it all look more authentic. Stations with platforms with white lines and a totem board. A tunnel, signage along the track, signals, even if they are fixed, make all the difference. The wave of a flag and blowing of whistle to start the journey. You could even issue tickets. And of course at this scale as you are carrying real people you can use full sized plants and shrubs. This is a garden railway after all. I like chugging around the track at minimum speed looking out for and stopping to pull out weeds as I go along. Makes weeding fun!

7. We can't leave this without mentioning money, even though it is not very British! Large scale model railways (I mean gauge O and upwards) are expensive hobbies however you look at it. Considering the size of ride on railways the costs are not that bad in comparison. I had a budget of Β£5K for my simple layout, which was for everything including battery loco, batteries and charger, driving truck, track, ballast and sub-base, small garden pond, new lawn and a shed. I kept to that more or less.

You could do it for less. You can get second hand locos, Maxitrak regularly advertise them. I saw a Ride-on-Railways "Jasper" 0-4-0 battery shunter for Β£800. Both Ride-on-Railways and Maxitrak offer their locos as kits. I bought track kits with plastic sleepers and chairs, but you could just buy the rail and make your own sleepers with 2"x1". If you have the metal-working facilities you could build your own trucks. Conversely you could pay a lot more. Live steam locos start about Β£4K. You can get a nice 0-4-0T quarry Hunslet for Β£4,500 ready to run, and it runs on 8 foot curves! Or you can pay Β£6,500 for a ready to run LMS Fowler 4F 0-6-0 with tender. Points are not cheap, Β£200 for kits or Β£400 assembled. It sounds pricey but I think you get a lot for your money. The two companies I have mentioned (Ride on Railways and Maxitrak) are both small family businesses with minimal overheads so you are basically paying for materials and their time, using skills and equipment I don't have, so I am happy to pay them.

So there you have it. It's been a lot of work but it has been an enjoyable journey and the fun to be had at the end is quite something. It goes without saying the grandchildren love it, grandson especially. There's still a bit more to do, but in terms of the basic layout it is done for now. So it will be more playtime until winter, when I must get back to the shed and start a new G scale layout...

Would I do it again? You bet!
Dave Miller
currently building the 5" gauge Circle Line

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by Peter Butler » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:35 pm

Fascinating report Dave, it sounds as though you have enjoyed every minute of the build and can now share the pleasures of operating with others.
I have no personal ambition to run such a line but can appreciate the effort which you have put into your railway.
It is just a big toy and you are taking it no further, which is refreshing in these days of competitive one-upmanship Your grandchildren are fortunate to have such an experience, which hopefully will enhance their appreciation of craft skills such as yours.
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

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Re: The Circle Line

Post by DonW » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:55 pm

Thank you for such a comprehensive report. Some interesting points in there for anyone considering building such a line. It is something I have considered but the ground slopes and we have already done enough heavy work since moving here. I do like the way you have done yours and suggest giving your advice careful thought.

Don

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