North East Victoria Railway

A place for the discussion of garden railways and any garden style/scale portable and/or indoor layouts
User avatar
Tropic Blunder
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by Tropic Blunder » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:43 am

I'd love to see those wagon frames too, always good to see how other people do it!
This is my wombot Drafter, print dimensions are 250x250x310, I actually have two of these machines but the other one is still being commissioned. I havent had a great experience with these to be quite honest and next time I'd much rather spend my money on an UP or Makerbot.
47485864_522595664883517_3409767264914767872_n.jpg
47485864_522595664883517_3409767264914767872_n.jpg (57.83 KiB) Viewed 6734 times
Two samples of locomotives ive printed, the top one (a TGR V class) is fairly similar to a UK class 03 but with outside frames.
42427570_329129040999597_7061681234040061952_n.jpg
42427570_329129040999597_7061681234040061952_n.jpg (117.08 KiB) Viewed 6734 times
39467218_510643639358319_1824708214231400448_n.jpg
39467218_510643639358319_1824708214231400448_n.jpg (403.06 KiB) Viewed 6734 times
Regards
Jake
Jake

Image

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by philipy » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:35 pm

Tropic Blunder wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:43 am I'd love to see those wagon frames too, always good to see how other people do it!
Agreed. :)

Actually, I'd love to know how you manage to get the surface so smooth on your prints, it's something I struggle with in a big way. Looking at the pictures of the hopper and the white loco body, they look almost perfect.

Anyway, here is a pic of my wagon underframe. Printed as the frame, plus 4 axlebox/spring assemblies separately, all the bolt heads and spreader plate are printed as part of the frame print. It wasn't until I put the first one together that I realised I had boobed by not making the buffer beam deeper, but that's easily corrected with some plasticard on these two, and a minor mod to the drawing for the future. The axle boxes on the primered version are only glued on one side, leaving the other loose so that I can remove the wheels until final assembly
DSC_0003 small.jpg
DSC_0003 small.jpg (174.51 KiB) Viewed 6724 times
Philip

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:19 pm

I really do like the idea of using a 3D printer in this scale but the finish of printed items puts me off.

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by FWLR » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:49 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:19 pm I really do like the idea of using a 3D printer in this scale but the finish of printed items puts me off.
So do I Tom. Same has you, the finish is somewhat of an issue with some traders I have dealt with. Don't know if it's the machine or the programs that they run.


I do like your'e frames though Phillip. Do you do commissions..... :?:

User avatar
Tropic Blunder
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by Tropic Blunder » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:38 am

Hi Phillip, no secrets here! the malcolm moore (4 wheel diesel) got a bit of car body filler on the top of the bonnet otherwise my trusted technique is about 6-10 coats of the cheapest primer I can find. My prints are usually printed at .2mm per layer for stuff like buffer beams, doors etc but lately I've been printing at .3 - .4mm layer height just to cut down on time due to the size of the prints (.1mm less per layer ends up being a 3 hour difference with one of the fyansford hoppers) its all about the application!

Your underframe looks fantastic! I love all the bolt and strap detail you've put into it which is something I really need to work on for my own models. What wheels are you using?

I've gotta say Rod it can be a pretty steep learning curve and a big investment using a 3d printer. It looks quite easy seeing the machine spitting parts out but what people dont see is the countless hours on inventor nutting the drawings out! If you can do some extra classes in engineering at a trade school that'll help you get the basics down and you can do some experimenting to see if it suits what you need otherwise there are companies that'll hire machines or print it for you if you can design it.
Jake

Image

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by FWLR » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:44 am

Thanks Jake. Yes I will stick with people who know what they are doing..... :lol:

User avatar
IanC
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:15 am
Location: Nr. Warrington, Cheshire

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by IanC » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:45 am

I can see and understand the benefits of 3D printing, but for me it is too big an expense and learning curve as I don't have an engineering, drawing or technical background. I too have issues over the quality and durability of the finished product. Perhaps I am just being a Philistine?
Ian

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by philipy » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:03 am

Tropic Blunder wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:38 am Hi Phillip, no secrets here! the malcolm moore (4 wheel diesel) got a bit of car body filler on the top of the bonnet otherwise my trusted technique is about 6-10 coats of the cheapest primer I can find. My prints are usually printed at .2mm per layer for stuff like buffer beams, doors etc but lately I've been printing at .3 - .4mm layer height just to cut down on time due to the size of the prints (.1mm less per layer ends up being a 3 hour difference with one of the fyansford hoppers) its all about the application!

Your underframe looks fantastic! I love all the bolt and strap detail you've put into it which is something I really need to work on for my own models. What wheels are you using?
Hi Jake,
I tend to print at 0.18mm layers for pretty much everything. I know it takes longer but needs much less fettling afterwards. It's also the solution to the fine detail which you commented on - the curved strapping plates and the bolt heads are simply sticking out from the side of the frames by 1mm and at 0.18 the printer copes quite happily with a quick sideways flick as it goes past that point, no need for support. The thing to bare in mind though, is that the more surface detail you add, the harder it is to smooth the surrounding surface, especially if you are going to blast it with half a dozen layers of primer!
Part of the time problem can be solved with lower infill density, I usually set it at 20%, although on very small/ thin parts its more or less 100% anyway by the time its printed the top and bottom layers and both side walls! However 20%, or even 15%, does make a big time difference on larger items, saves on filament too!

The wheels are Swift16 with 3mm axles cut from silver steel rod from ebay.
Last edited by philipy on Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Philip

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by philipy » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:16 am

IanC wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:45 am I too have issues over the quality and durability of the finished product. Perhaps I am just being a Philistine?
I think it's important not to think of quality in terms of, say, a 2D colour Laser Printer, unless you are a professional with a super quality machine.

It's also important to be aware that it isn't necessarily the right tool for every job. If you followed my previous ramblings, you'll know that I have tried to do everything with it, whilst I was learning, but in reality its quicker and more satisfying to build a wagon body, with strapping, etc, from scratch rather than messing about trying to draw and print fine detail.

As for durability, ABS is ABS so that shouldn't be an issue, and although I haven't felt the need to try, nylon and various other durable filaments are available, although how you stick Nylon is another question!
Philip

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by FWLR » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:46 am

FWLR wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:44 am Thanks Jake. Yes I will stick with people who know what they are doing..... :lol:
Although I do have an engineering background and it was in CNC programming as well as the setting and making side of it and I have loads of time on my hands, I may consider looking at a course and see how it works....it's about X Y Z isn't it.

Our should I still buy from experienced people who have more to do with them....decisions, decisions.....

User avatar
IanC
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:15 am
Location: Nr. Warrington, Cheshire

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by IanC » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:22 pm

philipy wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:16 am
IanC wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:45 am I too have issues over the quality and durability of the finished product. Perhaps I am just being a Philistine?
I think it's important not to think of quality in terms of, say, a 2D colour Laser Printer, unless you are a professional with a super quality machine.

It's also important to be aware that it isn't necessarily the right tool for every job. If you followed my previous ramblings, you'll know that I have tried to do everything with it, whilst I was learning, but in reality its quicker and more satisfying to build a wagon body, with strapping, etc, from scratch rather than messing about trying to draw and print fine detail.

As for durability, ABS is ABS so that shouldn't be an issue, and although I haven't felt the need to try, nylon and various other durable filaments are available, although how you stick Nylon is another question!
Thanks Philip, I do tend to stick to what I know! I'll continue to read your posts on the subject as I do find it interesting.
Ian

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by FWLR » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:04 pm

philipy wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:16 am
I think it's important not to think of quality in terms of, say, a 2D colour Laser Printer, unless you are a professional with a super quality machine.

It's also important to be aware that it isn't necessarily the right tool for every job. If you followed my previous ramblings, you'll know that I have tried to do everything with it, whilst I was learning, but in reality its quicker and more satisfying to build a wagon body, with strapping, etc, from scratch rather than messing about trying to draw and print fine detail.

As for durability, ABS is ABS so that shouldn't be an issue, and although I haven't felt the need to try, nylon and various other durable filaments are available, although how you stick Nylon is another question!
This may help Phillip.

https://www.3dnatives.com/en/nylon-used ... 110420174/

Although you may already know about it. I had dealing with working with Nylon on a machine I was setting up for a company that made bicycle lights. I can tell you it was very hard wearing I know !, because we had to put it through all kinds of tests..

User avatar
Tropic Blunder
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by Tropic Blunder » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:02 pm

While I've never tried ABS I cant say I've ever had any issues with PLA durability wise. If I'm worried about a particular piece I just make the wall thickness bigger. I tend to use the printer to bulk out large pieces in a rough resolution and then add the detail parts on as separately printed items. Just like a kit really. I've ordered some XTC-3d to see if it makes the finishing process easier.
48178009_2033240933434860_4919421735150813184_o.jpg
48178009_2033240933434860_4919421735150813184_o.jpg (213.65 KiB) Viewed 6457 times
Whats that in the background?
47571232_2033241416768145_8828687099520614400_o.jpg
47571232_2033241416768145_8828687099520614400_o.jpg (137.11 KiB) Viewed 6457 times
A bit more of a teaser although i think at this point its fairly obvious what it is!
47681589_502300946945033_5667243736875139072_n.jpg
47681589_502300946945033_5667243736875139072_n.jpg (202.66 KiB) Viewed 6457 times
I modified the axleboxes and the underframe and this week the first Fyansford hopper broke cover. Unfortunately I've just discovered how they tipped and so its back to the drawing board for a redesign
47682591_207822396830360_3921653828167925760_n.jpg
47682591_207822396830360_3921653828167925760_n.jpg (407.85 KiB) Viewed 6457 times
On its first test run hauled by D1, no problems were observed so it'll return back to the workshop for fitment of doors and a paintjob ready to be accepted into traffic.
Jake

Image

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by philipy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:07 pm

All look good Jake.
Let us know how you get on with the XTC-3d please.
Philip

User avatar
Tropic Blunder
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by Tropic Blunder » Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:49 am

Lots has been happening here but you'll have to wait a few days to hear about that!

In the meantime heres some photos from my local miniature railway. We had our last runday of the year today and in typical Melbourne fashion it absolutely bucketed (despite it being summer!) The track isnt normally surrounded by water btw thats just how bad the rain was!
48367137_2043917049033915_1902561441433518080_n.jpg
48367137_2043917049033915_1902561441433518080_n.jpg (69.69 KiB) Viewed 6363 times
48366851_374857889749402_8244466604033703936_o.jpg
48366851_374857889749402_8244466604033703936_o.jpg (174.25 KiB) Viewed 6363 times
Jake

Image

User avatar
Tropic Blunder
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by Tropic Blunder » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:00 am

2018 has been an extremely interesting year for the railway we've gone from a small loop with a handful of track powered locos to a short but operational point to point railway with five battery powered locos and a heap of Australian locos in the pipeline. Hopefully the fair rate of progress keeps going into 2019. Ryan was interesting in having a run so he came over from the other side of town and along with Alexander and Darren at one point we had 4 trains running at once!
49344578_2067210473371239_1836995282441601024_o.jpg
49344578_2067210473371239_1836995282441601024_o.jpg (221.62 KiB) Viewed 6858 times
#14 Arrives at Badger creek with a long freight train.
49343236_2067210413371245_5746202462889443328_o.jpg
49343236_2067210413371245_5746202462889443328_o.jpg (287.67 KiB) Viewed 6858 times
D1 Pulls an empty ore train around the mainline leg of the Wye past the NSWGR signal box. This was a model made for HO scale that i found on thingyverse by badgerbreath, The roof is aluminium BBQ trays from bunnings cut up to scale size and corrugated using a FIskars crimper.
49338661_2067210656704554_294825414398836736_o.jpg
49338661_2067210656704554_294825414398836736_o.jpg (282.19 KiB) Viewed 6858 times
D1 and #14 depart the mine wye on their way back down the hill.
49164601_2067210330037920_176555058882674688_o.jpg
49164601_2067210330037920_176555058882674688_o.jpg (246.81 KiB) Viewed 6858 times
all dressed up with no where to go! For some reason the signalman has put the stick "on the green" without any train present and with the points set against the road!
49074703_2067210916704528_1018445223870595072_o.jpg
49074703_2067210916704528_1018445223870595072_o.jpg (209.09 KiB) Viewed 6858 times
Mine shunter A9 prepares to push back up the triangle while D1 waits in the interchange.
49143062_2067211020037851_6090646818415181824_o.jpg
49143062_2067211020037851_6090646818415181824_o.jpg (98.42 KiB) Viewed 6858 times
the evening mixed leaves Badger creek
49896258_2067211153371171_3326969241864765440_o.jpg
49896258_2067211153371171_3326969241864765440_o.jpg (78.01 KiB) Viewed 6858 times
D1 returns the last wagons of the day to the top of the line.
Jake

Image

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by FWLR » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:16 am

Some brilliant photos Jake of some really great looking locos.

User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by Andrew » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:32 pm

Looking good - I love the station building. 4 trains running at once sounds good too - in theory that's just about possible' i=n my line, but I've only ever managed two, and that was pretty hairy...

User avatar
Tropic Blunder
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by Tropic Blunder » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:48 pm

Thanks all I really appreciate it.
theres a few updates to go although I'm tipping progress will stall after tomorrow, its meant to be 42 degrees C here in Melbourne and I cant imagine myself doing much work outside despite having a trailer load of ballast to spread!

heres a few photos my father took of some of the other trains
49898067_1113288912166638_7783399008654852096_o.jpg
49898067_1113288912166638_7783399008654852096_o.jpg (278.07 KiB) Viewed 6842 times
The driver of the battery electric is probably praying at this point. The twisting climb up the 1:30 is usually a fairly good test of an engines stamina.
49723848_1113287472166782_220772202461528064_o.jpg
49723848_1113287472166782_220772202461528064_o.jpg (405.3 KiB) Viewed 6842 times
It made it to the top and somehow managed to acquire a train. Another fantastic model by Alexander this one always wins points for its portability.
49294865_1113288445500018_2264503991939366912_o.jpg
49294865_1113288445500018_2264503991939366912_o.jpg (307.94 KiB) Viewed 6842 times
Steam Motor and trailer ready to depart Badger creek
49289574_1113287575500105_7217766109422813184_o.jpg
49289574_1113287575500105_7217766109422813184_o.jpg (214.28 KiB) Viewed 6842 times
49202798_1113289952166534_8353439691088855040_o.jpg
49202798_1113289952166534_8353439691088855040_o.jpg (271.17 KiB) Viewed 6842 times
49167918_1113290215499841_7033846933974155264_o.jpg
49167918_1113290215499841_7033846933974155264_o.jpg (181.15 KiB) Viewed 6842 times
Under failing light the crew of the MM spur their W&W train on...
49132279_1113289688833227_4100005746748424192_o.jpg
49132279_1113289688833227_4100005746748424192_o.jpg (206.85 KiB) Viewed 6842 times
Close up of the Baldwin
49206370_1113289268833269_3057469321170124800_o.jpg
49206370_1113289268833269_3057469321170124800_o.jpg (297.53 KiB) Viewed 6842 times
An interesting solution to an unusual problem. the ESET's steeplecab goes for a run away from the wires.
Alexanders tramway runs 32V overhead then uses a rectifier to bring it back to a clean 12v which is then fed into Deltang RC thus with a 12V+ battery and some wire to the trolly pole...

After we finished at home we took Ryan around to see the tramway. Recently returned to service boxcab FO24 is seen here taking a freight down the hill towards grasslands.
49089445_2067211433371143_1451962111579127808_o.jpg
49089445_2067211433371143_1451962111579127808_o.jpg (272.72 KiB) Viewed 6842 times
48369236_2067211533371133_3477843170866233344_o.jpg
48369236_2067211533371133_3477843170866233344_o.jpg (273.34 KiB) Viewed 6842 times
Departing from Currawong back up the hill.
49264320_2067211626704457_6035635829315993600_o.jpg
49264320_2067211626704457_6035635829315993600_o.jpg (164.46 KiB) Viewed 6842 times
Back in the Depot with the tramways Lyn.
Jake

Image

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: North East Victoria Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:53 pm

What camera did he use as those shots are brilliant quality.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest