The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Lonsdaler » Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:31 am

philipy wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:19 pm
Trevor Thompson wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:50 pm

I’m going to look for the model boat stanchions -
Try Cornwall Model Boats. Not the easiest site to navigate because they list things by brand, but if you dig for long enough there is an amazing selection of stuff available.
Indeed, that's where I got mine from, although they no longer appear to stock the straight stanchions I had, instead there are 3 rail ball type ball stanchions. 40mm would be the most 'scale' version I think. https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/cg ... l#SID=2483
Phil

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My Line - https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11077

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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Trevor Thompson » Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:28 am

I have looked at the stanchions. The only problem is going to be the cost - bearing in mind how many I will want.

Peter made a comment a while back that he didn't realise how big this all was until he actually visited. Thinking about stanchions has brought this home to me.
The viaduct is 15 ft long, so its going to need 5 lengths of track each 3 ft long. I use 20 sleepers per length of track, and every other one is going to have a stanchion at each end. That is 100 stanchions - at £0.86 each. Of course 40mm stanchions are a bit short really - I think they would be 3 ft high, so each one requires 50mm of brass - say 5mm diameter. Then there is wire to thread through them so that is roughly 10 metres of brass or stainless wire 2.5mm diameter. I suspect I will be turning the stanchions up myself!

I will come back to stanchions when I get to the track for the viaduct!

All this thinking about track has set me to making track. So perhaps I should describe how I make it.

Firstly sleepers. I like wooden sleepers - they just look right to me - compared to plastic. I could buy them but I make them. I have used the remains of teak garden furniture which makes superb sleepers - but beware the splinters when machining it. Otherwise whatever new wood is available (within reason). Since we have just had building work going on here I have recovered ends of joists and roof timbers. All of the viaduct so far comes from this source. Larch is my preferred timber because it is supposed to last well in contact with soil - and as a soft wood it absorbs preservative. Of course to do anything like this requires a table saw.

The trestles are made from 25mm x 25mm, and the cross bracing from 25mm x 12mm. The sleepers are just a bit thicker than the bought ones. Just in case you are not familiar with a table saw it has guides to enable wood to be cut to repeatable sizes:
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The guide on the left enables wood to be cut to predetermined widths, then adjusted to make the strips into rectangular sleeper strips. Using the left hand guide to determine the length, and the right hand guide to hold the strip square, allow individual sleepers to be made from the strips. Please note that the guard has been removed because I am making joints in kitchen furniture - and have just posed this for a photo.I do use the guard whenever possible.

So a box full of blank sleepers.

The next thing I need are chairs. I am modelling Ffestiniog practice so chairs and bulkhead rail. Cliff Barker is my source of individual chairs in bags of 100, and code 180 stainless rail. The chairs come in two parts because they are really intended for gluing to plastic sleepers, but they have a spigot which fits into a hole in the sleeper. This spigot has to be glued to the bottom of the chair. A boring and repetitive chore. Chairs glued to spigots:
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Next holes in chairs.

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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Trevor Thompson » Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:43 am

The one thing I have found to be critical is where the holes are in the sleepers, variability here makes the track gauge unreliable and derailments likely!

I have two guides and a jig to help. Firstly an end stop to fit into the vice on the drill bed:
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The first hole has only to be in about the right place. So an old sleeper is my template to set the drill to just go into the hole, when the sleeper is pushed against the end stop.

So I drill a batch of sleepers with a hole at one end.

Next I move the end stop out of the way, turn the sleeper round and insert the pin in this jig into the hole. This guides the drill down into the correct place for the next hole:
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As far as getting the holes equally spaced from side to side I do that by eye and feel as I go along, rather than with a jig to hold the sleepers in place because I find that different batches of my sleepers are slightly different widths!

So a batch of sleepers with 2 holes.

Trevor
Last edited by Trevor Thompson on Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Trevor Thompson » Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:52 am

The next step is to fit chairs into sleepers:
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I used to just push them in - but experience with another make of chair taught me to glue them in place to stop them lifting over time. So that glue again. You can see that if I use too much glue there is some to clean off. I need to be careful to make sure the chairs are the right way round. 2 bolts on the inside, one bolt on the outside.

Then to the garden to lay it.

I have a template to space sleepers on straight track, but this first section is curved. It is easy to get a fair curve by running it through your hands to bend it gently. Then threading the sleepers on and adjusting them so that they are the correct distance apart.

I have connected the first two lengths of track, and pressed the fishplates tight with plyers. I have glued every third sleeper and weighted it with stones - just to support it gently while the glue foams:

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Trevor
Last edited by Trevor Thompson on Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Trevor Thompson » Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:01 am

And finally ballast.

I keep forgetting what I did last time, so its hard to see what worked best! This time I mixed 50% cement and 50% "chick grit". You may know that chickens use grit to pulverise corn in their gizzards. Small chickens are given small grit alongside their food - and they eat it for this purpose. So "chick grit" is available from farmers suppliers in small bags and in big bags. I buy a big bag - which goes quite a way! It is also about the right size and relatively cheap.

So I spoon the mixture between the rails and use an old paintbrush - like everyone else - to spread it. The usual shower from a garden misting gun and leave the weather to set it. The final result:
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I suspect I have used too much cement - and 1/3 cement, 1/3 grit, and 1/3 sand might be better. I certainly think the usual 1: 5 ratio for cement is not sufficient when used this way.

Trevor

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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Peter Butler » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:42 pm

I have just remembered, Trevor, some time ago I bought a few stanchions from one of our 16mm Area Group members and it is possible he might have sufficient to do your trestle fencing......
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I remember they were very reasonably priced (cheap!) and are pre-drilled too. Nothing fancy, which might be better suited than turned ones?
If you want a contact just let me know.
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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Trevor Thompson » Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:04 am

Peter

Yes please - I would like the contact details.

I would much prefer NOT to have to make my own stanchions!

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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Peter Butler » Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:20 pm

PM sent Trevor.
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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Old Man Aaron » Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:44 am

Slow, methodical work yielding high-quality results. Can't beat it. :salute:
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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Trevor Thompson » Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:38 pm

Peter Butler wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:20 pm PM sent Trevor.
Iv contacted Cain.

Thanks again

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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Trevor Thompson » Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:00 pm

I would like to ask for some advice with regard to plants and landscaping for a problem area on my railway.

So to explain the problem a photo:
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This is the first, earliest section of the railway, and the grass bank is the problem. The area has a gradient of about 60 degrees in the foreground, easing to about 45 degrees by the engineering workshop in the distance. It faces North. At the top of the bank we have a "fence" of espaliered apple trees, which you can see in the photograph. I know they need pruning - which tells you that I can't cope with the gardening! Of course at the bottom is the railway, with a concrete barrier of "rotten teeth" slate fencing in the background, and stone walling in the foreground, separating the track from the slope.

I use a petrol trimmer at the moment to cut that grass on the bank, climbing onto the bank, and kneeling on one knee with the other foot resting behind the concrete barrier. It is of course fairly difficult to do, and I don't think I would trust a "gardener" to do that - in case they damage the track. Not running down paid gardeners as such - more admitting that it is almost impossible to do it! I am looking for something which will be easier to maintain. I don't mind pruning "it" every so often - just not every week! I have a long handled hedge trimmer which might be useful in the future?

So what will grow on a north facing slope in a place which is often wet (Wales!). Something which will grow sufficiently vigorously to discourage the grass to reconquer the bank, yet not need pruning every week.

I am reconciled to having to get all of the grass roots out, which will be difficult and time consuming.

All ideas gratefully accepted!

Trevor

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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by philipy » Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:34 pm

Two thoughts come to my mind immediately, but first a question - if I understand it correctly, it is really the bottom couple of feet, adjacent to the railway proper, that is the big problem?

If you are resigned to potentially having to dig the grass out, you could just do it for the bottom stripe and then, either (a) plant MYOB. It will still need keeping in check at the platform/trackbed edge, but only occasionally.
or (b) cover the de-grassed area with weed control fabric and lay either rocks or crazy paving on it. If you planted the gaps with low creeping rockery/alpines, you could get an effect not too disimilar to Dazza's ( probably take a lot longer to establish with our climate of course!)

Just a couple of thoughts, FWIW.
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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Peter Butler » Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:56 pm

I really like Philip's idea to build a retaining stone wall, possibly eighteen inches tall, with planting of something like Box to disguise the grass above, but having seen your line first hand, I know the picture does not adequately show the length of the bank, which is huge! You would need lorry loads of material and an army of builders to carry it out.
Perhaps a lower stone wall with slabs, or pre-cast concrete textured effect above, which could be painted as background sky effect etc. and planting above could achieve a similar solution?
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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Trevor Thompson » Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:37 am

philipy wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:34 pm Two thoughts come to my mind immediately, but first a question - if I understand it correctly, it is really the bottom couple of feet, adjacent to the railway proper, that is the big problem?

If you are resigned to potentially having to dig the grass out, you could just do it for the bottom stripe and then, either (a) plant MYOB. It will still need keeping in check at the platform/trackbed edge, but only occasionally.
or (b) cover the de-grassed area with weed control fabric and lay either rocks or crazy paving on it. If you planted the gaps with low creeping rockery/alpines, you could get an effect not too disimilar to Dazza's ( probably take a lot longer to establish with our climate of course!)

Just a couple of thoughts, FWIW.
I don't think it is just the bottom couple of feet which is the issue, but the whole bank. In a way the bottom couple of feet should be the easiest to strip - could even be done with a battery strimer. The part higher up is the difficult bit. The difficulty causes me to put off cutting it - which of course makes things worse. Last week it was over 2ft high, and hard work even with a petrol trimmer.

I think weed control fabric is going to be needed - and it probably has to be tucked in under the apple trees to connect with the path on the other side of the apple trees. I think I then have to plant something through the fabric. The idea of rocks or paving on the fabric has potential. We have loads of rock from old buildings which we are using to build walls and the like. Tons and tons of it!

I have managed to get offcuts of Privet to take on the bank - but Dinah doesn't like Privet - which is a pitty because I can visualise a low bank of it replacing the grass!

So I think I am now looking for a low growing alternative!

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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Trevor Thompson » Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:38 am

Peter Butler wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:56 pm I really like Philip's idea to build a retaining stone wall, possibly eighteen inches tall, with planting of something like Box to disguise the grass above, but having seen your line first hand, I know the picture does not adequately show the length of the bank, which is huge! You would need lorry loads of material and an army of builders to carry it out.
Perhaps a lower stone wall with slabs, or pre-cast concrete textured effect above, which could be painted as background sky effect etc. and planting above could achieve a similar solution?
Perhaps box is a possibility.

The only problem with building a wall - is that I am half way through building one, and have 3 more waiting to be built. So another on the list isn't particularly getting my enthusiasm fired!

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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Jbs » Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:56 am

Trevor,
You might get away with a low wall between the line and the bank, not back filled. Lay weed control fabric between the wall and up to and around the apple trees at the top of the bank over the grass. Pierce the fabric at intervals for planting a low growing shrub. I have used lonicera nitida Baggesons Gold (not sure of spelling)which is a low growing variety and I trim mine twice a year with a long hedge trimmer. As the lonicera grows, it soon covers the spacing required between plants and is cheapest buying as rooted cuttings around this time of the year. Lonicera also makes a good embankment on raised track when appropriately trimmed.
Might be a solution for you and is a bit less work than digging up all the grass. I have covered grass with the fabric and laid gravel over the top with good results. The grass just dies under the covering.
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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Trevor Thompson » Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:45 am

Oh!

I never thought I would get away with that!

That sounds like it might be worth a try.

and thanks for the tip on the rooted cuttings.

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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by philipy » Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:42 pm

Jbs wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:56 am lonicera nitida Baggesons Gold (not sure of spelling)which is a low growing variety and I trim mine twice a year with a long hedge trimmer. As the lonicera grows, it soon covers the spacing required between plants and is cheapest buying as rooted cuttings around this time of the year.
Good idea John. Only thing is that Baggesons Gold isn't really low growing and needs to be trimmed at least a couple of times a year, as you said. I have some that has got mixed in with honeysuckle in the fence at the back of my line and where it doesn't get trimmed, it is now over 6ft tall!
Even cheaper than buying bare root cuttings is rooting your own! Simply take 6-8" prunings and stick them in some compost. Keep them watered and in a few months, depending on the time of year, they will root and can be transplanted to wherever. I've actually gota number of self-rooted bushes that have grown by themselves from bits that didn't get picked when I trimmed the bushes. I think they will also multiply by 'layering' although I've never tried that.
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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Trevor Thompson » Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:48 pm

I know I have got you all thinking about plants!

However I took these photos this morning after removing all the clamps and I had to share them!
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Its finished apart from the track, which will incorporate the walkway and handrail. Of course it needs treating with wood preservative, and the landscaping needs sorting out - but its raining hard.

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Re: The Railway in the Valley of the Mill

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:05 pm

That is so impressive Trevor, particularly the view looking up at the structure. You have wasted no time in completing it either, despite the weather!
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