Northfield Tramway

A place for the discussion of garden railways & any garden style/scale portable layouts
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DafyddElvy
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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by DafyddElvy » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:50 pm

Andrew wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:09 pm
Looking good!

Although I have to try not to look at model trams, I could become hooked...
There is nothing wrong with being hooked on trams, ding ding 🙃

David

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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by DafyddElvy » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:33 pm

While waiting on some parts to arrive I also made a start on an open tram which will be used as a trailer, this of course also needed a new truck, the only thing I have decided on for the trail is the electrical connection between the two vehicles as they won't be permanently coupled I need to find a suitable cable connector my clumsy fingers can use and be strong enough not break.
Hi David
I use these JST micro connectors. They are tiny, but click together reliably and as they already have wires attached, are fairly easy to wire into the system

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284270706948

Rik
Thank you for the link, the connectors arrived today, I hadn't realised these connectors came in such a small size, I think these should be ideal for my purpose, thanks.

With the recent purchase of a live steam loco I have been distracted researching what bits n bobs I am going to need for the loco, back to trams for tonight though.

David

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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by Andrew » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:35 am

DafyddElvy wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:33 pm
e recent purchase of a live steam loco I have been distracted researching what bits n bobs I am going to need for the loco, back to trams for tonight though.
You could always combine the two - I'm rather taken with the new (?) Regner steam tram kit - https://www.gardenrailways.co.uk/regner ... r-rtr.html - as constructed by this forum's Mike...

Looking forward to hearing more about both projects!

Andrew.

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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by DafyddElvy » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:17 pm

Andrew wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:35 am
DafyddElvy wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:33 pm
e recent purchase of a live steam loco I have been distracted researching what bits n bobs I am going to need for the loco, back to trams for tonight though.
You could always combine the two - I'm rather taken with the new (?) Regner steam tram kit - https://www.gardenrailways.co.uk/regner ... r-rtr.html - as constructed by this forum's Mike...

Looking forward to hearing more about both projects!

Andrew.
There are becoming far far too many distractions, the unexpected winning bid on flea bay for a steam loco being just one. I was actually looking at the Regner tram engine first to join my trams, but that purchase will need to go on hold for now.

What may seem like a nothing moment for some was actually a big step forward when I set up some plant pots at the side of the house and put a small wall panel on top, seems a silly thing to do until you realise this bodge together was to provide a visual mock up of the planned flower bed/return loop. Domestic planning now in place with photographic evidence ;-)
ImageReturn Loop

Progress is still progress. Now I need to find someone with fence posts and some bricks and cement in stock which is proving difficult just now, then I can start the first phase of track laying.


David

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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by philipy » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:12 pm

DafyddElvy wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:33 pm

I hadn't realised these connectors came in such a small size,
I had never come across this size before, either. I subsequently discovered that they do a 3-way version which have just been delivered, and other multiples seem to be available.
So my thanks to Rik as well.

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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by DafyddElvy » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:22 pm

philipy wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:12 pm
DafyddElvy wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:33 pm

I hadn't realised these connectors came in such a small size,
I had never come across this size before, either. I subsequently discovered that they do a 3-way version which have just been delivered, and other multiples seem to be available.
So my thanks to Rik as well.
When the 2 pin connectors came I decided to order some more 2 pins and the 3 and 4 pins types which I am sure will come in handy.

David

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Northfield Tramway

Post by DafyddElvy » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:46 am

A quick sketch of the tramways test track, if trams can run on this they should have no problems in the garden.

A friend is knocking up a templot track plan for me so I can start progressing some track, albeit indoors on the test track.

David
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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by Jimmyb » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:27 am

DafyddElvy wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:46 am
A quick sketch of the tramways test track, if trams can run on this they should have no problems in the garden.

A friend is knocking up a templot track plan for me so I can start progressing some track, albeit indoors on the test track.

David
I would have thought the inner radius should be smaller than the outer radius, or at the very least the same radii, so I am surprised to see this the other way around :)

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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by DafyddElvy » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:44 am

Jimmyb wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:27 am
DafyddElvy wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:46 am
A quick sketch of the tramways test track, if trams can run on this they should have no problems in the garden.

A friend is knocking up a templot track plan for me so I can start progressing some track, albeit indoors on the test track.

David
I would have thought the inner radius should be smaller than the outer radius, or at the very least the same radii, so I am surprised to see this the other way around :)
Jimmy,

Both radii are the same. Originally I thought about a conventional curved turnout but quickly realised that would be a bit of a pig to build and this arrangement is more in keeping with tramway practices and keeps the switches on the straight, the only fiddly bit is the obtuse crossing switches.

At least in 1:22.5 scale I'll be able to hold the turnout components with my fingers which should also make things simpler.

David

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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by Melbournesparks » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:48 am

DafyddElvy wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:46 am
A quick sketch of the tramways test track, if trams can run on this they should have no problems in the garden.

A friend is knocking up a templot track plan for me so I can start progressing some track, albeit indoors on the test track.

David
Is that for dual gauge track? Having the common rail swap sides in the set of points is an interesting feature! I guess this way you could use two independent point blades for each gauge?

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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by DafyddElvy » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:10 pm

The turnout design came about because of the need for dual gauge track with the wider gauge rail on the outside of centre, I considered a number of different options, one not particularly sensible, and even one option with four rails in the single line section, the sketch was the best compromise I could think of.

At the moment I haven't even given operation of the turnout much thought, the outer curve is fairly simple, switches are either all set for the outer curve or they are not, the inner curve is going to need a wee bit of thought, if I was using DCC it would be simple but as I want to operate this in the same way I'll be operating things in the garden it needs some thought.
One idea I had for any points in the garden was to use pneumatics which could be adapted in this scenario quite easily with some springs and three air feeds to the point, I think about how the point is operated once I have a drawing that shows exactly where everything will fall and the space where the switch blades are.

David

edit
I should say that in the garden turnouts will be avoid where possible, one end of the line will have a balloon loop while the other end will have a turnout similar if not the same as this which will progressively move along as track work progresses along the back of the garden.

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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by Melbournesparks » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:34 pm

DafyddElvy wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:10 pm
The turnout design came about because of the need for dual gauge track with the wider gauge rail on the outside of centre, I considered a number of different options, one not particularly sensible, and even one option with four rails in the single line section, the sketch was the best compromise I could think of.

At the moment I haven't even given operation of the turnout much thought, the outer curve is fairly simple, switches are either all set for the outer curve or they are not, the inner curve is going to need a wee bit of thought, if I was using DCC it would be simple but as I want to operate this in the same way I'll be operating things in the garden it needs some thought.
One idea I had for any points in the garden was to use pneumatics which could be adapted in this scenario quite easily with some springs and three air feeds to the point, I think about how the point is operated once I have a drawing that shows exactly where everything will fall and the space where the switch blades are.

David

edit
I should say that in the garden turnouts will be avoid where possible, one end of the line will have a balloon loop while the other end will have a turnout similar if not the same as this which will progressively move along as track work progresses along the back of the garden.
One suggestion based on having built some points is moving the common rail side change to be outside the points, something like this:

Image

(excuse the MS paint)

Black is running rails, red is check rails. Then it is a bit easier to lay out the points themselves, and the common rail side change is a separate unit. Also allows you to use just a single point blade for both gauges. Single bladed points seem to do better outside, especially in dirty environments because you only have to clean out one blade to move them rather than two.

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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by DafyddElvy » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:57 pm

I would worry if I was you, we are half thinking along the same idea (avoided the pun) and my wife says anyone who thinks like me should worry.

My Mk5 design was similar to yours but I changed the hand of the dual gauge on the single straight and and put the narrow gauge change over to the inner side on the outer curve, I am working in fine scale using code 200 rail and a 2mm flange way, using tramway practices I might try switching the outer curve narrow gauge to the inside using the check rail as a guard rail (slightly raised) to guide the tram rather than use switches, win win.

Now I also need to make some track gauges, but at least these will be universal.

David

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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by Melbournesparks » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:01 pm

DafyddElvy wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:57 pm
I would worry if I was you, we are half thinking along the same idea (avoided the pun) and my wife says anyone who thinks like me should worry.

My Mk5 design was similar to yours but I changed the hand of the dual gauge on the single straight and and put the narrow gauge change over to the inner side on the outer curve, I am working in fine scale using code 200 rail and a 2mm flange way, using tramway practices I might try switching the outer curve narrow gauge to the inside using the check rail as a guard rail (slightly raised) to guide the tram rather than use switches, win win.

Now I also need to make some track gauges, but at least these will be universal.

David
Haha, it's the inevitable result of thinking about track work too much. That sounds great, should really look the part with the fine wheel profile. I built all of mine to normal 45mm gauge wheel profile which has at least a 3mm flangeway, and a bit more on tight curves. It certainly doesn't have the same look, but I wasn't brave enough for a custom wheel profile. Or gauge for that matter. It's a pity there isn't any proper girder rail. I even looked into how feasible it would be to get a custom aluminium extrusion made once. It wasn't so expensive that you wouldn't consider it at all from memory, but it would have needed to be in a volume far higher than what I was going to use at the time.

Coming from a part of the world where dual gauge is widespread common rail changes are usually static, I've only ever seen an active one that uses point blades in some specific situations that require a high speed.

Making some track gauges is a good idea. You can live without them, but proper tools make life a lot easier!

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Re: Northfield Tramway

Post by DafyddElvy » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:20 pm

I decided from the outset that I want to adopt fine scale track and wheels standards, I know its bucking the trend a bit but as I have also opted for battery power their aren't many folk likely to bring their stock along unless I do put power in the track.

I am using standard Gauge 1 wheels which have a 1.3mm wide flange, a 2mm flangeway for straight and radii over (and I'm guessing) 3m should be fine, below about 3m radius I suspect I'll need to experiment a bit.

Hey I'm new to the garden tramway scene I'm expected to build things that need a wee bit of tweaking to get it right, its all part of the fun, I think.

David

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