Two into one will go.

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philipy
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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by philipy » Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:20 pm

I think at the moment there are basically two types of user, "Mr/Mrs Average" and what used to be called "Mondeo Man".
The average journey in the Uk is only about 10 miles I believe and most car commuters don't travel more than around 30 miles each way. All of those users could charge up at home or at work or at the supermarket once every few days. ( Yes, I know that not everyone has the off road parking necessary for private chargers).

For more intense users, the public network is not as good as it should be as I found out last week. However I think that it will improve steadily as the market shakes down. At the moment there is a sizeable number of smallish charger network companies and I strongly suspect that there will be a steady rate of mergers and takeovers. There was one earlier this year when "Ecotricity" was taken over by "Gridserve". The Ecotricity chargers are old fashioned and unreliable and require apps and membership to use. Gridserve are currently replacing them all at the rate of one location a day with uptodate simple contactless card payment machines. I experienced both during the week - one I walked away from but the other was easy.
Plus Gridserve are building "Electric Forecourt" charging hubs which are like a Motorway service area, the first is open in Braintree. I haven't used one yet, but they look amazing. I suspect that this will accelerate and, obviously, conventional service areas will have to gradually replace most of their conventional fuel pumps with EV chargers.
https://www.gridserve.com/braintree-overview/

There is quite some way to go but as I said, so far I don't regret my purchase decision.
Philip

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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by ge_rik » Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:27 am

I think my hesitancy is because, although most of my journeys are local, a few times during the year, we take the car on much longer trips - visiting relatives, going on holiday, visiting narrow gauge railways, visiting fellow modellers, etc. I'm hoping my present vehicle has got at least ten years of life in it before it staggers to a halt, so I think I've got a bit of leeway before the decision is forced on me.

Rik
PS There was something on the radio yesterday saying people should wear their clothes for longer than a year to help save the planet. My attitude to clothes is similar to my attitude on cars. Use them until they fall apart ..... 😬
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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by philipy » Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:02 am

ge_rik wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:27 am
PS There was something on the radio yesterday saying people should wear their clothes for longer than a year to help save the planet. My attitude to clothes is similar to my attitude on cars. Use them until they fall apart ..... 😬
I still have a pair of socks, which I wear from time to time, which were given to me as a Christmas present by my first wife's maiden aunt in about 1985!
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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by Andrew » Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:09 am

philipy wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:02 am
ge_rik wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:27 am
PS There was something on the radio yesterday saying people should wear their clothes for longer than a year to help save the planet. My attitude to clothes is similar to my attitude on cars. Use them until they fall apart ..... 😬
I still have a pair of socks, which I wear from time to time, which were given to me as a Christmas present by my first wife's maiden aunt in about 1985!
Bravo! It alarms me that anyone wouldn't do that. Underwear aside (always best to leave your underwear aside on a public forum, I think...), I've got no idea how old much of my wardrobe is, 'cos it was secondhand in the first place!

Your "long journey in an electric car" experience sounds quite similar to a chap who wrote an article in the Guardian about driving his EV from Lands End to John o'Groats, which I read with interest because the latter 3/4 of that is a journey I've made almost annually for many years... It's here, if you're interested: https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ectric-car

I admire your pioneering spirit Philip!

Cheers,

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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by Jimmyb » Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:14 am

ge_rik wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:27 am
Rik
PS There was something on the radio yesterday saying people should wear their clothes for longer than a year to help save the planet. My attitude to clothes is similar to my attitude on cars. Use them until they fall apart ..... 😬
I have nothing less than a year old, and the suit I am currently wearing to work (to wear it out) is my "demob" suit from 25 years ago. I did send some shirts and stuff to the charity (road side bag collection) and these were bought whilst still serving, a couple of these picked up in the middle east, just after the first gulf war had finished, and i needed some "going out" clothes.

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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by philipy » Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:57 am

Thanks Andrew, good article. Pretty much exactly mirrors my experiences so far.
Philip

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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by Lonsdaler » Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:41 am

An interesting thread,thank you all. Philip, Are you able to work out your mpg (or should that be mpKw?) and equivalent cost per mile? I have no idea how the travel cost compares with a 'normal' car.
I must be honest and say - not being able to reliably find a charge point would stress me out no end :lol: Unless going on holiday, my father would never top up his tank beyond a quarter full. I prefer mine to be as near full as possible, 'just in case' (not fuel efficient I know)
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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:32 pm

Lonsdaler wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:41 am
I must be honest and say - not being able to reliably find a charge point would stress me out no end :lol:
I agree totally with this and would add that not being able to plan a reasonably accurate arrival time at any destination would also make me stressed out. Appointments, meeting ferry-sailing times etc. Re-charging could easily add hours to a journey in order to guarantee being there on time.
The proposed charging centres look very attractive but would necessarily be away from towns or places of natural beauty or special interest (I hope). But that leaves little or nothing to do except wait in an environment designed to encourage drivers and passengers to spend money. We have learned from motorway service stations how this works.
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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by philipy » Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:04 pm

Lonsdaler wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:41 am Are you able to work out your mpg (or should that be mpKw?) and equivalent cost per mile?
It's a bit difficult to be accurate because as I said I didn't get a bill for 3 recharges and I didn't record cost vs charge amount. However using my best guesses, I reckon it cost about £61-50 to do 933 miles, which works out at approx 6.89 pence/mile.
My previous car, a diesel Citroen C3, did around 54mpg and Tesco diesel price average in October was £1.41/litre ( £6.42/gal), which equates to about 11.8 pence per mile.
So electric is a little over half the price of diesel, per mile - depending how much of a gas guzzler it is compared with, of course.

It is also difficult to project cost because of the variable rate that different chargers want i.e:
I pay 20.12p/KWh at home from Octopus Energy ( Not my choice, I got moved because we got caught by Avro going under, a few weeks back).
Chargeplace Scotland in Helensburgh ( used twice ) costs 25p/KWh
The Gridserve Network ( I used twice) costs 30p/KWh.
Shell ( used once) cost 45p/KWh.
Lonsdaler wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:41 am I have no idea how the travel cost compares with a 'normal' car.
I must be honest and say - not being able to reliably find a charge point would stress me out no end :lol:
I'd be a liar if I said I didn't get stressed a bit, but I do think a lot of it was fear of the unknown... the "what if?" syndrome. Baring in mind that when we set off for Scotland I'd driven it less than 100 miles and most of that was actually collecting the car from the dealers! The secret is to plan ahead at where I'm going to need to re charge and still leave a reasonable buffer for diversions to an alternative. Which is what I did with intending a top up at Wetherby and ending up at Topcliffe, but still having enough in reserve to not really having to worry, although I did a bit!
Philip

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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:25 pm

What is the plan for a rescue service should the battery run flat and leave you stranded. Can the car be given a sufficient boost at the roadside from another vehicle to get to the nearest charge point, and then hope it is in full working order?
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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by philipy » Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:42 pm

Courtesy of Kia, the car came with 12months free top of the range RAC cover including roadside recovery, plus a guaranteed renewal price for years 2 & 3 which is only marginally more than I was paying for Green Flag for my little Citroen.
... and before anyone asks, the fullycomp insurance is £18 a year more than I was paying for my 6 year old Citroen.

I guess if it looked really desperate, I'd call for help before the battery was completely flat.
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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:42 pm

Here's something to be aware of...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsKwMryKqRE
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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by philipy » Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:03 am

Thanks Peter, interesting. I guess thats a problem that really only affects that % of the population who have multiple cars that don't get driven for 12 months!
I'm not wealthy enough to be able to afford a Tesla :lol: and I don't think ( but I will check) that the Kia's battery is as difficult to get to as that appears to be. From memory it is simply in roughly the same posion as a conventional car.
There was an issue a year or two ago on mine, whereby the 12v battery went flat fairly easily because it is a low capacity one and things like dashcams could drain it if left on in parking mode, and at that time the main battery didn't automatically recharge it. However they have fixed that issue and also, now when the 12v battery reaches a low level, it switches off everything attached so that there is enough power left for essential things like unlocking and starting. To be on the safe side I have bought a 12v jump start pack ( although whether I will remember to keep that charged is another question!).
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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by ge_rik » Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:39 pm

philipy wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:03 am ...... To be on the safe side I have bought a 12v jump start pack ......
How about getting a Deltang Rx65c receiver for it as well ....... ;) :lol:

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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by invicta280 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:51 pm

Very informative Philip. That is just the sort of practical info needed by those unfamiliar with electric cars, who maybe are considering going electric. You would think that with the pressure to get every one converted to electric vehicles there would have been more effort put into the infrastructure.
Despite being someone who supported Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth in the 70's and 80's I am a bit unconvinced by the current (no pun intended) direction of travel. The most pollution any car ever causes is during the manufacturing process, and that holds true for electric as well as fossil fuel vehicles. I can't help but harbour the suspicion that the development of electric vehicles which could have started years ago has been held back by the corporate giants until they got their ducks in a row and felt confident that they could turn eco awareness to their advantage.
I run a business which involves 3.5 tonne vans and our work would be almost out of the question with the electric van options available.
Apart from the price, which I'm sure would be breathtaking, the range would be a serious issue. Also weight is a major issue in these vans and I suspect that battery weights would have an impact on payload.

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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by philipy » Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:45 pm

invicta280 wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:51 pm
Apart from the price, which I'm sure would be breathtaking, the range would be a serious issue. Also weight is a major issue in these vans and I suspect that battery weights would have an impact on payload.
I know nothing about it as such, but I believe that Hydrogen powered vehicles are being proposed for heavier load hauling.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-59119721

and JCB are working towards Hydrogen powered "JCB's".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59107805
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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by invicta280 » Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:02 pm

"I believe that Hydrogen powered vehicles are being proposed for heavier load hauling."

Yes, that seems like a more sensible option for heavy duty use maybe. I heard that JCB are leading the field in this.

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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by ge_rik » Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:18 am

How about .....
https://youtu.be/_3P_S7pL7Yg

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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by Lonsdaler » Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:27 pm

invicta280 wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:51 pm Very informative Philip. That is just the sort of practical info needed by those unfamiliar with electric cars, who maybe are considering going electric. You would think that with the pressure to get every one converted to electric vehicles there would have been more effort put into the infrastructure.
Despite being someone who supported Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth in the 70's and 80's I am a bit unconvinced by the current (no pun intended) direction of travel. The most pollution any car ever causes is during the manufacturing process, and that holds true for electric as well as fossil fuel vehicles. I can't help but harbour the suspicion that the development of electric vehicles which could have started years ago has been held back by the corporate giants until they got their ducks in a row and felt confident that they could turn eco awareness to their advantage.
I run a business which involves 3.5 tonne vans and our work would be almost out of the question with the electric van options available.
Apart from the price, which I'm sure would be breathtaking, the range would be a serious issue. Also weight is a major issue in these vans and I suspect that battery weights would have an impact on payload.
It seems some are planning ahead - a modular electric powered van system, being developed in the UK.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology-59077475
Phil

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Re: Two into one will go.

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:33 pm

It has been a while since I visited this thread and, as I have just heard about a proposed new 'surge tax' on the use of electricity at peak times,( which can be measured by smart meters in the home at 30 minute intervals), I wondered how EV drivers feel about this new financial penalty? This must surely impact on the charging of EV's during the evenings or overnight, particularly when the majority of drivers would find it most convenient?
I appreciate all fuel costs are increasing, but this is something which may not have been considered by EV drivers at the time of purchase. If this is due to restricted electrical supply then already there is a recognition that insufficient infrastructure is available to cope with demand?
I imagine that future installation of home charge points will come with a condition of smart meter connection too. Something I have managed to avoid so far.
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