Volunteering

This is the place to talk about news, TV, music and other hobbies
Post Reply
Big Jim
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:28 pm
Location: Near Llanelli

Volunteering

Post by Big Jim » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:49 am

The debate here has raised some interesting points.
https://gardenrails.org/viewtopic.php?p=135732#p135732

Tom has rightly moved the topic back to railways so I thought I would continue the argument on a new thread. Tom's point about a group of volunteers not being welcoming to a new members very valid and sadly not an isolated incident.

I am currently writing an academic paper on recent changes in the way the Church in Wales is run. An awful lot of my research has been about volunteering and the nature of it (Both the C in W and the C of E are the largest volunteer organisations in their respective countries).

Volunteering as we know it only really came about after the WW2, prior to that there were groups of willing individuals who would step into all manners of roles but the direction often came from individuals of certain social classes who did not need to work (Think the WI and other organisations). Post WW2 there was a rise in the amount of leisure time available to all people, with not a lot of choices about how to spend it and many Hobby organisations started to grow around this time. What would happen is that a group of youngish people would start a group with a common interest, this could be anything from railway clubs, groups of bell ringers, art and craft groups etc etc. Most of these groups would be formed by people who were friends or colleagues before and a strong nucleus would form, with individuals with in the group each performing a particular task. In the case of skills based groups such as a group of bell ringers all the members will get to a similar skill level eventually and will be able to pursue their hobby in the way that they want.

Railway preservation started a bit later, but the principles were the same.

When you get a strong group it is harder for outsiders to join as there is already an established structure in place and often little need for outsiders except for the most boring of activities or tasks. New people do join but they tend to be friends or family of people already involved. If a new member joins a skill based group, there is often a reluctance among some to teach the newcomer as this means there is less time to enjoy the hobby oneself. If the new member is known to the group then this reluctance is often less than if they are strangers.

Over time strong groups will grow slowly and age together. It then becomes harder to newcomers to join as young people may not feel quite as happy joining a group that is comprised of people much older than them. There is also the issue that as groups age the times of meetings may change to reflect changes in circumstances, eg meeting during the day when many members have retired precludes anyone working joining in.

When you have a group that has been in existence for a long time with many of the same people involved there is a reluctance to chance anything that may make it more accessible to new members as "We have always done it this way".

We are now at a point when many groups that were started in the 1950's and 1960's are struggling because they have failed to attract more members for reasons such as those above.

There is also the issue that more Women work now so do not have the free time that they may have had years ago and also domestic duties are now shared between both partners so there is more pressure on time off for things other than hobbies. Home entertainment also gives people more things to do without leaving the house so there is less of a need to seek outside interests.

It is also worth remembering that new legislation such as Health and Safety and Child Protection have made the situation more complex.

Not all groups are the same and the above is just a small part of what can happen, I could bore you even more about it but I won't.
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer!

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Volunteering

Post by FWLR » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:39 am

Jim you haven’t bored me and all you points a very valid, but don’t you think that as I have that going out into the fresh air, no matter where you are is better than staying indoors and for a vast majority of people, have no communication.

Since I have been involved with my sm32 Garden Railway, I do feel much fitter and I can at last breath easier now, although the farmers around here do make you feel a bit nausea sometimes.. :lol: :lol:

The idea now of staying indoors with a smaller gauge, when the sun (What thats) shinning is no contest. But unfortunately has for volunteering for a railway for the time being is beyond me for now, but hopefully I will be able to give whatever help I can. My local heritage steam railway do ask for volunteers every now again and I will go along one day soon to see if they would like me to help them.

Has for the groups, don’t you think that there are not to many youngsters running small scale wether it be 32mm/45mm. I do see you point on child protection, but most people who run garden railways have some very young people in their respective families, so getting them involved would be easier than some young person just turning up, although my not so local group do encourage people to turn up wether they have a loco or not, and encourage them to have a go with a members loco, with guidance of course. I just wish though I had a really local club nearer me so I could go along more often.

I have been thinking about hiring the local village hall and having an indoor steam up, so hopefully more people would see how enjoyable it is, it doesn’t have to be live steam, battery would also be able to run and if there are people there to explain how cheap it is to start on garden rail, compared to the smaller scale stuff, ge_rik has just put on his blog how he built an HGLW kit for about £40, then youngsters would, with luck get more involved and hopefully go on to bigger and better things. But then again getting more people who run garden railways nearer to me to go along would be difficult I think, because I have asked on the 16mm association group if any live near me, but all I got was to get in touch with the not so local organiser near to me.

I could go on with more Jim, but like you I don’t want to bore you with long posts, (I get take it more than 4 lines at one time) :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is my local heritage line.

https://ribblesteam.org.uk

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Volunteering

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:09 am

I only watched the latest 16mm NGM DVD today, you can count the number of young people in it using on one hand and they were not even owners of any locos from what I could see.

Big Jim
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:28 pm
Location: Near Llanelli

Re: Volunteering

Post by Big Jim » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:41 am

Rod, I think you have hit the nail on the head. Going out side into the fresh air and doing anything is better than sitting inside breathing your own fumes so to speak.

I think the idea of an indoor running session is brilliant and should be encouraged. Many group's of all kinds are now finding that they are desperate for new blood and are now changing how they operate to make themselves more accessable.

Onwards and upwards.
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer!

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Volunteering

Post by FWLR » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:29 am

How would I go about getting some more people involved in a run in my local hall Jim, I know there are some more guys doing garden rail around where I live, but not all of them are members on here Jim. I don’t want to go on FB and ask, because I want to try and cut down my use of it (getting silly with the amount of time).

First thing I know is to ask someone at the hall if it would be possible and how much would the charge be,if any. Then……this is where I fall down, I just haven’t got a clue how to approach or ask someone else, it only needs 2 maybe 3 more guys to run something.

I do have access for getting some board to build one, but then it’s down to people (VOLUNTEERING) to help build it. It does need some interest on it, nothing to fancy, but it needs to keep young people involved and get them to want to have one of their own. I did buy one of those Tesco sets in February, but it’s still in the box un-opened, not got round to telling Anne yet :lol: :lol: :lol: Still she should be ok with it, because it only cost me £15 from Amazon, they were doing Prime members certain offers for one day. So I could utilise that on a board has well.

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Volunteering

Post by FWLR » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:59 am

Don’t know if this is relevant,

[video] <iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video. ... &width=560” width="560" height="315" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>/video]

But this young guy is having a great time…..

Big Jim
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:28 pm
Location: Near Llanelli

Re: Volunteering

Post by Big Jim » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:20 pm

I know fb is not universally popular but it would be a good tool to get information out there about your project. There are various garden railway pages and one for the 16mm association. If you are a member of the association it might be worth contacting your local area group.
As for getting people to volunteer, I find asking people directly works the best. Never rely on people to offer.
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer!

User avatar
IanC
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:15 am
Location: Nr. Warrington, Cheshire

Re: Volunteering

Post by IanC » Tue May 01, 2018 12:13 am

FWLR wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:39 am I have been thinking about hiring the local village hall and having an indoor steam up, so hopefully more people would see how enjoyable it is, it doesn’t have to be live steam, battery would also be able to run and if there are people there to explain how cheap it is to start on garden rail, compared to the smaller scale stuff, ge_rik has just put on his blog how he built an HGLW kit for about £40, then youngsters would, with luck get more involved and hopefully go on to bigger and better things. But then again getting more people who run garden railways nearer to me to go along would be difficult I think, because I have asked on the 16mm association group if any live near me, but all I got was to get in touch with the not so local organiser near to me.
Rod,

I think the idea of a show is good. I'm happy to help if possible. PM sent with some contacts and information that might help if you proceed with the idea.

Ian
Ian

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Volunteering

Post by FWLR » Tue May 01, 2018 6:21 am

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your’e reply. I am an association member, have been since I started with 16mm last year in June, so I will go on FB and ask there. I have seen on the association disc some people around here, but they don’t seem to be on here.

I am in the middle of two groups though, Merseyside and West Lancs Group and the Cumbria Group. We are actually going to a steam up on the 27th May, (which was planned before our news on the house.) so I can ask there, we/I don’t plan on going to any at the moment to the West Lancs Group until we have found a new place and settled in there, but I may get in touch with Derek and Rob, who are the local organisers. I have met a few people when I have been to steam ups they have held. Also the one at Scorton, which is one of the Cumbria Group’s members line. I think I posted a video on the forum with my “Billy” running there.

I am really keen to try and get this going because, when I have been to a local heritage line, which is in (Hesketh Bank, Lancashire) about 10 minutes away from me, the local organisers Derek and Rob have had a portable layout there and they do get interest from people, although I suspect they are on holiday at the couple of beside resorts around here.

I will update when I get some more news. :thumbright:

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Volunteering

Post by FWLR » Tue May 01, 2018 6:22 am

Hi IanC,

I will get back to you with a PM. :thumbright:

User avatar
IanC
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:15 am
Location: Nr. Warrington, Cheshire

Re: Volunteering

Post by IanC » Tue May 01, 2018 6:07 pm

FWLR wrote: Tue May 01, 2018 6:22 am Hi IanC,

I will get back to you with a PM. :thumbright:
Thanks Rod.

I was with Derek on Saturday helping with one of his portable layouts. If I knew how to post videos I'd post one in the video section of the layout.

I think Derek may have one of his layouts at the West Lancs Teddy Bears picnic event on 20th May.

Ian
Ian

jim@NAL
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1115
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:01 am
Location: haverhill suffok

Re: Volunteering

Post by jim@NAL » Tue May 01, 2018 10:34 pm

This is a very good point made I myself have tryed to contract a railway line(a small preservation full scale line also with a small 00 gauge line ) very near where I live with e mail a letter even calling them up .with no luck or even much of a reply for some reason they don't want my help being a carpenter and quite a practical bloke you would of thought they might like my free time and skills.

User avatar
IanC
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:15 am
Location: Nr. Warrington, Cheshire

Re: Volunteering

Post by IanC » Wed May 02, 2018 12:26 am

jim@NAL wrote: Tue May 01, 2018 10:34 pm This is a very good point made I myself have tryed to contract a railway line(a small preservation full scale line also with a small 00 gauge line ) very near where I live with e mail a letter even calling them up .with no luck or even much of a reply for some reason they don't want my help being a carpenter and quite a practical bloke you would of thought they might like my free time and skills.
I've seen it happen. For some reason the volunteer liason officer or recruitment officer, for whatever, reason often doesn't get the details passed on. If you want to volunteer, the best thing to do in my experience is turn up and track down the appropriate point of contact and make an appointment to return for an induction.

Ian
Ian

Big Jim
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:28 pm
Location: Near Llanelli

Re: Volunteering

Post by Big Jim » Wed May 02, 2018 8:22 am

Ian, I think you are right with this. A good way to do it is to turn up and make a nuisance of yourself until someone gives you a job to do.
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer!

User avatar
Soar Valley Light
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:18 pm
Location: North West Leicestershire

Re: Volunteering

Post by Soar Valley Light » Wed May 02, 2018 7:10 pm

Big Jim wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 8:22 am Ian, I think you are right with this. A good way to do it is to turn up and make a nuisance of yourself until someone gives you a job to do.
Both Jim's are spot on. One of the problems is that there is a bit of a history of 'five minute' wonders coming along, taking up peoples time in getting them set up to work on the railway, only to have them fizzle out. This results in wasting a lot of valuable time by those regular volunteers who are running the show and who are painfully aware of the high value of volunteer time. I'm not suggesting anyone here is a five minute wonder, please don't think that. From the comments made here so far the offers of assistance appear sincere and full of good intent. There is no better way of conveying those facts than to go down a group that You want to devote your time to working with - it's a two a two way street.Bear in mind that because of the reasons stated above, there can sometimes be a natural suspicion of new commers. Stick with it if you decide it's for you. Once you have your feet under the table and clearly intend to be a regular you will find yourself on the inside and in the company of a lot of new friends. If you reach that point you will understand the whole initial reluctance thing from the other side!

Do give it a try, I've struggled to 'get in' more than once in the past - it has always been worth breaking through the ice. :thumbleft:

Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"

User avatar
IanC
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:15 am
Location: Nr. Warrington, Cheshire

Re: Volunteering

Post by IanC » Wed May 02, 2018 8:04 pm

Soar Valley Light wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 7:10 pm
Big Jim wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 8:22 am Ian, I think you are right with this. A good way to do it is to turn up and make a nuisance of yourself until someone gives you a job to do.
Both Jim's are spot on. One of the problems is that there is a bit of a history of 'five minute' wonders coming along, taking up peoples time in getting them set up to work on the railway, only to have them fizzle out. This results in wasting a lot of valuable time by those regular volunteers who are running the show and who are painfully aware of the high value of volunteer time. I'm not suggesting anyone here is a five minute wonder, please don't think that. From the comments made here so far the offers of assistance appear sincere and full of good intent. There is no better way of conveying those facts than to go down a group that You want to devote your time to working with - it's a two a two way street.Bear in mind that because of the reasons stated above, there can sometimes be a natural suspicion of new commers. Stick with it if you decide it's for you. Once you have your feet under the table and clearly intend to be a regular you will find yourself on the inside and in the company of a lot of new friends. If you reach that point you will understand the whole initial reluctance thing from the other side!

Do give it a try, I've struggled to 'get in' more than once in the past - it has always been worth breaking through the ice. :thumbleft:

Andrew
Absolutely right about new volunteers not staying Andrew. We've seen that a lot on our railway. Those that commit to their chosen role and get stuck in do find it rewarding and a source of good friendships. Equally many organisations have lost good and willing volunteers by not making them feel welcome and valued, or by failing to invest in training and encouraging the new blood. Two way street sums it up perfectly.

Ian
Ian

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Volunteering

Post by FWLR » Thu May 03, 2018 6:24 am

I have tried on many occasions ( Not volunteering on railways ) but other things, something like I want to do now, start a steam up in the local hall. One of the others was too like minded small gauge stuff to have meetings at a local store I had arranged to hold it in, the manager was very helpful, he even provided a member of his own staff to serve coffee and some light refreshment for us. But because one of the older and longer members of the forum that I was involved with took all the credit on the forum and at a show, ( It was pointed out to him by the other members ) that he didn’t do anything and it was me that did all the organising, it fizzled out. Surprising how much influence he had, but that is another matter.

The point is like Andrew said “It’s a two way street” it’s a lot of hard work that needs committed people on both sides and to be open to each other.

bazzer42
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:37 pm
Location: Forest of Dean

Re: Volunteering

Post by bazzer42 » Thu May 03, 2018 8:15 am

Definitely a two way thing. My dad and nephew used to paint at one of the West Somerset stations, a new, dictatorial supervisor soon put paid to that. He still has a soft spot for the line but won't be going back as a volunteer. I would imagine it would be easier to fizz volunteers if there is no pay packet incentive. For both sides of the story if you are forced into a management role and have no empathy you will struggle.

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Volunteering

Post by FWLR » Thu May 03, 2018 8:25 am

You are so right there Derek with dictatorial supervisors. The guy who I trained when he started has a driver for my old company was one of those guys who if he could would get others to do his work. Proved it when he got made up to a manager, I was a lead driver, then a Transport Supervisor…all the other drivers were so glad I become a supervisor because the manager got them to do things he should of been doing. Needless to say he didn’t get away with it with me….

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests