India

[ge_rik]

Bit of a long-shot maybe.

Just returned from a very pleasant evening celebrating the New Year with an old friend. We decided that we'd both like to travel to India before we both get too old and decrepit (we are now both mid 60s). We have the backing of both our wives (neither of whom seem to want to visit a country that doesn't have 'proper' toilets) and so it will be a 'boys only' trip. He's not as fanatical about railways as I am and so we'd like to do a combined sights and railways trip. Neither of us wants a 'package' holiday but neither are we of the 'backpacker hostel' generation. Ideally, we'd like to participate in a trip which is arranged by an organisation which is India-based - so we get an authentic experience and also support the local economy rather than plough our money into an anonymous multinational company.

Can anyone advise?

Rik

PS - And no this is not an alcohol-fuelled whim (well partially maybe) - it is something we have been talking about for several years but now feel it's about time we actually did it!

[philipy]

Rik,
Probably not what you really want but we can thoroughly recommend a hotel in S. Goa, were we are currently halfway through a 4 week stay ( our 5th time here). The local single line with passing loops is Metre Gauge running Chinese( I think) diesels on long freights! The hotel can arrange trips to the Goa tourist attractions such as getting in the river with brooms to wash elephants and then getting on its back for a "power shower" from its trunk!
It is 3/4 star, is very clean "proper" toilets and excellent food.

[TonyW]

Far from being an anonymous multinational company as all of their profits go towards improving the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railways, Ffestiniog Travel may offer the kind of trip you are looking for. Their current offerings can be found here https://www.ffestiniogtravel.com/search ... mitstart=0 but they will also create a bespoke tour that covers all you may wish to do.

[ge_rik]

Far from being an anonymous multinational company as all of their profits go towards improving the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railways, Ffestiniog Travel may offer the kind of trip you are looking for. Their current offerings can be found here https://www.ffestiniogtravel.com/search ... mitstart=0 but they will also create a bespoke tour that covers all you may wish to do.

They look like wonderful tours, but a bit outside my price bracket, I'm afraid.

Rik

[ge_rik]

Rik,
Probably not what you really want but we can thoroughly recommend a hotel in S. Goa, were we are currently halfway through a 4 week stay ( our 5th time here). The local single line with passing loops is Metre Gauge running Chinese( I think) diesels on long freights! The hotel can arrange trips to the Goa tourist attractions such as getting in the river with brooms to wash elephants and then getting on its back for a "power shower" from its trunk!
It is 3/4 star, is very clean "proper" toilets and excellent food.

Sounds wonderful. But I think we'd want to do a tour of some sort to get in as many of the sights as we can while we're there. It's likely to be a one off.

Rik

[philipy]

Distances in India are huge and roads and rail are not conducive to fast journeys. Suggest you need to decide what you would like to do/see and then try t work out what is pratical. I know you would like to avoid TUI/Thos Cook etc, but suggest you look at their offerings to give you a flavour of the sorts of things that are practical.

Also, there is a travel company called "Explore!" which specialise in small groups and more adventurous holidays, using local dedicated guides. We had a fabulous one with them a few years back to Jordan, taking in Roman sites, Crusader sites, Petra, sleeping under the stars in Lawrence of Arabia country, etc.. I know they do India although not used them here. https://www.explore.co.uk

[ge_rik]

Thanks Philip - that site looks very interesting and I like the idea of drawing on local knowledge.

I've been to Jordan many times - as part of a long term educational consultancy project. Lovely country and lovely people. I managed to take in many of the sites during various visits (Dead Sea, Petra, Karak, Jerash, Madaba). I existed mostly off street food while I was there (Sharwama, Felafel 'sandwich' etc) so I didn't have to dip too deeply into my paltry subsistence allowance. I also had the privilege of being invited for meals in quite a few homes - and very quickly learned that it's not a good idea to clear one's plate otherwise it gets piled high with even more food. I now really like Middle Eastern food as a result of this experience (and a few trips to Palestine).

Rik

[Big Jim]

Check out the DHR society website, I think they do railway tours.

[bazzer42]

If you stumble across any gems Rik can you let us know. Mrs B thinks we should do something a bit "more" this year as I reach 6 decades.

[ge_rik]

If you stumble across any gems Rik can you let us know. Mrs B thinks we should do something a bit "more" this year as I reach 6 decades.

Interesting doing the browsing. Seems like tours range from just under £2k to well over £7k. I think we shall be much nearer to the lower end. I think we might actually try and sort something out for ourselves rather than going for a package. I don't like the idea of being bussed around in a bubble - much prefer to muck-in with the local populace where possible. The main difficulty at the moment is the sheer scale of the adventure - India's a pretty big country - particularly as the Hill Railways (esp the DHR) are somewhat out on a limb. Still, at least the railway system in India is still fairly active.

Rik

[ge_rik]

Check out the DHR society website, I think they do railway tours.

Thanks Jim. Managed to track down their tours section. They look brilliant - but quite expensive - because they tend to be tailored with special charter trains and tours of engine sheds etc

Rik

[Soar Valley Light]

Hello Rik,

I've never been to India, although I'd love to go. Like you, I'm not interested in the 'on show' side of any country, I would want to experience the real India.

I do know people who have been there, predominantly chasing the end of steam but others more recently. Most of these people 'made their own way' to one extent or another. Every single one of them warned about the nature of India though and the need to be emotionally prepared for it. I've heard the real India described as a country living in three eras from the most primitive to the most modern. Abject and distressing poverty lives side by side with flamboyant extravagance, not surprisingly people say this can be hard to reconcile and stirs some very strong emotions. On a practical front it's also apparently wise to be cautious of street food (or any food of unknown provenance). There's a good reason why many Indians are vegetarian!

Having said all that, I can think of nothing more exciting or interesting than a trip to any part of India or it's surrounding countries. As Phillip says, it's a vast place and 'doing everything' would probably take more than a lifetime. Establishing a priority list sounds a good idea. I hope it comes to fruition for you. I'm sure I'm not alone in looking forward to your photo's of the trip already!

All the best,

Andrew

[philipy]

Personally, I wouldn't dream of a DIY tour here.
I admit that our experiences are limited to Goa, but this is a very affluent state by India standards and is for example in the middle of building an 8-lane dual carriageway bridge over the main river in the capital ( Panjim). However, in The Times of India a couple of days ago, there were complaints about the non-existance of ODF Zones in Goa - ODF Zones are "Outdoor Defecation Free Zones"!

There was a big fire in 2 illegal restaurants in Mumbai a couple of weeks back, which was probably reported in the UK? What may not have sbsequently been reported was that in a belated attempt to shut the stable door, the Mumbai authorities have subsequently "Razed"( Their word) almost 400 more restaurants which have flaunted the fire and other regulations.

As Andrew said there are unbelievable extremes living side by side and "Delhi Belly" is not just a sad old joke.

[ge_rik]

Got a bit further with this now. We're planning on going at the start of April. Neither of us can get away before then due to other commitments.

Our (very) outline itinerary is:

• Fly into New Delhi

• Train down to Jaipur for a couple of days

• Back to Delhi and then on to Shimla for a couple of days

• Then across to Varanasi - spend a couple of days there

• Then over to Darjeeling - not sure how long we'll spend there - but at least two days, like to spend longer if we have time.

• Then down to Kolkata to fly home

Things are still very fluid - we're anticipating two weeks but we can extend that a bit to fit things in. Clearly we'll travel on the Shimla and the Darjeeling hill railways and probably have to get at least one sleeper train (between Delhi and Varanasi).

Is there anything else worth visiting close to or on our route which might be worthwhile? Although my travel companion is not a train nut (he's more into the culture and meditation etc - a former hippy), he's quite happy for me to indulge in a bit of railway stuff while we're there.

We're intending to use AirBnB a fair bit while we're there so we can immerse ourselves in the local culture as much as possible.

Rik
PS We're avoiding the Taj Mahal deliberately - too many tourists!

[philipy]

We're intending to use AirBnB a fair bit while we're there so we can immerse ourselves in the local culture as much as possible.

Funny you should say that, but whilst we were in Goa and during the earlier exchanges on this subject, there was an item in the paper about a lady making a fortune ( in her terms) doing AirBnB in a village somewhere. I almost copied it out but didn't want you to think I was being negative. The summary was that it was very nice and the food was good and the hospitality was excellent, but there was norunning water and if you needed the 'bathroom' you shouted and a lady brought a bucket!

PS We're avoiding the Taj Mahal deliberately - too many tourists!

I believe it is covered in scaffolding atm, and there is a daily limit on entry tickets

[ge_rik]

Funny you should say that, but whilst we were in Goa and during the earlier exchanges on this subject, there was an item in the paper about a lady making a fortune ( in her terms) doing AirBnB in a village somewhere. I almost copied it out but didn't want you to think I was being negative. The summary was that it was very nice and the food was good and the hospitality was excellent, but there was norunning water and if you needed the 'bathroom' you shouted and a lady brought a bucket!

We'll be selective about which AirBnBs we use. They range in price from £5 per night to over £300 per night. I suspect hers will be more towards the lower end.

Rik

[Soar Valley Light]

Sounds like the 'real' India!

Whatever you do, wherever and whenever you go, please take plenty of pics Rik. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford the trip myself but I'd dearly love to. Seeing someone else's photos will have to suffice.

I've just been watching a Youtube clip of a metre gauge and a broad gauge train pacing each other. Although there is no sign of emotion the cres are clearly revelling in it!

Andrew

[ge_rik]

Just booked our flights. Flying out on 31 March to Delhi and flying back on 16 April from Kolkata. Sketched out an itinerary which includes two sleeper trains and have also managed to fit in two hill railways - the Shimla and the Darjeeling.

Have arranged for my innoculations - just about everything it seems apart from bubonic plague!

Rik

[philipy]

Looking forward to the reports and piccy's.

Hope it does go well for you, but you're a braver man than I, Gunga Din!

[Big Jim]

Don't forget your Pith helmet.