Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Old Man Aaron » Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:24 am

Soar Valley Light wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:10 pm Achieving at least some sort of scale speed and 'controlability' is crucial to me gaining any sort of satisfaction from model railways of any scale or gauge. It will need to look right or I will get brassed off.
Couldn't agree more. I'd sooner not have a loco, than an uncontrollable one. Looking forward to seeing what comes of your railway and zecar.

Incidentally, The original pair of Zecars I'd ordered from Kikkerland back in March 2020 never arrived, and after contacting them in August I'd still heard nothing. By November, I thought I'd make a last-ditch through the "contact us" page of their website. Not expecting a reply, I thought "dear this" then went to EvilBay, and bought another pair from someone else. Amazingly, a reply from Kikkerland was in my inbox the next day, and they promptly mailed out a replacement pair of Zecars free-of-charge - arriving from the US in a week, which was doubly impressive.

So, assuming the Evilbay pair actually arrive, (I'm a bit skeptical of this, as I've had several packages from the US go missing over 2020) my number of momentum wagons will in 2021, grow from one, to five! Assuming I can think of appropriate wagons in which to hide the Zecars.. So far, it's a tool wagon, a farmers' molasses tank wagon, and a small van from Swift16..

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Aaron
Last edited by Old Man Aaron on Wed May 12, 2021 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Lonsdaler » Tue May 11, 2021 10:14 pm

After I bought my first steam locomotive in 2014, I found Zach's article about the momentum van, and like many, I decided to have a go with a Zecar friction drive. I constructed a goods van freelance from plasticard, scored to give the plank effect, and scaled to suit the Zecar chassis (a bit squat and dumpy), fitted 25mm wheels in place of the supplied ones, and shortened the axles to fit within some dummy axleguards. This was the end result, from below
Image

And viewed side on
Image

I weighted the van with lead sheet to about 500 grams, and also applied some foam packing to the interior to try and reduce the awful whine which emanated from the drive. In trials, I found the results to be variable, and felt that the main problem was the short chassis length, which seemed to make the van work sometimes, but not others (someone earlier identified that the driven wheels need to be located at the locomotive end - not something I had considered when I ran my trial).
Eventually I replaced the Zecar with standard axles, and continue to use the van as a regular part of my stock.

Re-reading this thread a few weeks ago, I noticed that Simon Wood had combined 2 Zecars to make a momentum van, something that I had considered but taken no further when I decommissioned the Zecar unit from mine. Having acquired, some time ago, a goods van (I think an Andel models kit) which proved a poor runner, mainly due to the axle spacing on it and it's light weight, I began to consider a second attempt.

Having kept an eye on Zecars on Amazon over the intervening years, I noticed that prices (from a peak of nearly £30 a couple of years ago), were now more reasonable at about £12. I took the plunge and purchased another (having first made sure I still had the old one safely stored :scratch:).
Not for me the easy route of placing both devices in line, or angled so the undriven axle is within the body of the van. I decided to indulge in some bodgelling, attacked both carcasses with my Dremel, and then very skilfully cobbled the two surviving parts together with some brass plate and nuts and bolts. The axleguards are IP, and the axle stubs are retained in the brass bushes within the guards. so far, it all appears to be smooth running.
This is the stage I'm at at the moment - still to do is - install weighting, add foam insulation for noise suppression, refurbish and repaint. I'll update as it goes.
Image
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by SimonWood » Thu May 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Lonsdaler wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:14 pm Re-reading this thread a few weeks ago, I noticed that Simon Wood had combined 2 Zecars to make a momentum van, something that I had considered but taken no further when I decommissioned the Zecar unit from mine. Having acquired, some time ago, a goods van (I think an Andel models kit) which proved a poor runner, mainly due to the axle spacing on it and it's light weight, I began to consider a second attempt.
Wow that's vastly neater than my effort! Mine is currently disassembled, to be rebuilt into a new wagon when the round tuits arrive, with a bit more thought on my part on designing in sufficient weight in the wagon. I'm also tempted to compare how a two flywheel wagon compares to a single flywheel wagon with "4WD" as it were... but since I haven't yet found time to rebuild the original wagon let alone construct a second, my findings are not going to be published for some considerable time...

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Lonsdaler » Thu May 13, 2021 6:20 pm

SimonWood wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:18 pm
Wow that's vastly neater than my effort!
You're very kind Simon, but I think the camera angle disguises the bodgelling quite well! This is the unit ready to put into the van body, the two halves are connected by a brass strip either side. The carcase of the van is cleaned and ready to be repainted in GWLR colour(s) as soon as the weather pretends to be dry :roll:
Image
SimonWood wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:18 pm Mine is currently disassembled, to be rebuilt into a new wagon when the round tuits arrive, with a bit more thought on my part on designing in sufficient weight in the wagon. I'm also tempted to compare how a two flywheel wagon compares to a single flywheel wagon with "4WD" as it were... but since I haven't yet found time to rebuild the original wagon let alone construct a second, my findings are not going to be published for some considerable time...
As I intimated, I wasn't that impressed with a single mechanism and I'm still not convinced that this will be any better, but we shall see.
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Old Man Aaron » Sat May 15, 2021 2:41 am

Zecar or not, that's a very cute little van.

Looking forward to hearing how the second mechanism goes.
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by FWLR » Sat May 15, 2021 9:03 am

Brilliant Phil, this is a future project for me. :thumbright:

I presume it is instead of slo-mo's, which I couldn't afford to get right now.

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Lonsdaler » Sat May 15, 2021 10:49 am

Old Man Aaron wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 2:41 am Zecar or not, that's a very cute little van.

Looking forward to hearing how the second mechanism goes.
Thanks Aaron, I like it to, which is why when I originally gave up on the single zecar, I kept it running with normal undercarriage :thumbup:
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Lonsdaler » Sat May 15, 2021 10:54 am

FWLR wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 9:03 am Brilliant Phil, this is a future project for me. :thumbright:

I presume it is instead of slo-mo's, which I couldn't afford to get right now.
This thread should demonstrate how easy it can be to do Rod, and you are more than capable of building a suitable waggon for it, so go for it.
And yes, it is in effect trying to replicate the impact of a Slomo.
Not only are the Slomo's expensive, it appears that it's very much a one man band. It's a shame a larger enterprise isn't interested in taking it on and offering a broader range to suit more engines, but it is what it is :dontknow:
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Old Man Aaron » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:56 pm

Finally got round to starting another much-needed momentum van. Stole Garethh's idea to drive via delrin chain, had to pry the mech apart to fit the sprocket. The IP Eng. axle needed a knurl on it before the ⅛" sprocket would stay put - a drop of superglue was used too, though I doubt it's efficacy with delrin. Fitting the chain was a sh*t, won't be removing that one for painting..

This wagon will be a molasses tank, made to look as if it were converted from a cane truck - will look far more at home on a rake of cane trucks, than my guard's van. The tank (when I bother doing it) will be made of styrene to a boxy, riveted design, and likely fitted with captive nuts, so it's removable to allow repair or replacement of the Zecar mech if needed. Those ugly M2.5 nuts on the solebars will eventually be hidden by steps.

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by philipy » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:18 pm

Looking good so far Aaron
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Lonsdaler » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:13 pm

Old Man Aaron wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:56 pm Finally got round to starting another much-needed momentum van. Stole Garethh's idea to drive via delrin chain, had to pry the mech apart to fit the sprocket. The IP Eng. axle needed a knurl on it before the ⅛" sprocket would stay put - a drop of superglue was used too, though I doubt it's efficacy with delrin. Fitting the chain was a sh*t, won't be removing that one for painting..

This wagon will be a molasses tank, made to look as if it were converted from a cane truck - will look far more at home on a rake of cane trucks, than my guard's van. The tank (when I bother doing it) will be made of styrene to a boxy, riveted design, and likely fitted with captive nuts, so it's removable to allow repair or replacement of the Zecar mech if needed. Those ugly M2.5 nuts on the solebars will eventually be hidden by steps.

Image

Image
Looking good so far Aaron. don't forget some sound insulation. Mine is still a noisy old bird - I need to think about different insulating media rather than the sponge type foam I've used - I have some sound deadening foam left over from a project I've done on my van. I think I'll try that and see if it's more effective. :thumbleft:
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Keith S » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:12 am

I had my "Billy" out on its portable oval this summer with the zecar momentum van I originally started this thread with. I took a couple of short videos to show its performance. The locomotive is completely manual and although the deck is level, the track is pretty rough. Obviously the engine speeds up on the straight bits, but overall this van has continues to provide the performance I was hoping for. I stuffed the van with styrofoam after adding the steel plates, and I applied a heavy marine grease to the gears. It makes a bit of sound, but is mostly drowned out by the loco.

P.S. :Observant ones will notice: I let the train get rained on, and all the transfers on the right hand side of my "Gladstone" coach slid off!

https://youtu.be/KhP8p1GUO_k


https://youtu.be/FxcaVl-WyaI

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Old Man Aaron » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:42 am

That looks and works beautifully, Keith. I'm amazed at how quiet the van seems. Might have to try greasing mine..
Quite like the "shells" in the open wagon, too. 8)
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Old Man Aaron » Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:23 pm

Well, it's only taken two years to get that momentum truck finished. As mentioned a few posts back, my intent was for this to be a former sugar cane truck, with an added molasses tank to hide the mechanism. I couldn't however figure out a tank design that would hide the mech, without looking too large and purpose-built - rather than the usual slapdash conversions you'd find in the canefields.

Instead, I've based it on a navvy toolbox wagon we have at the Woodford Railway.
IMG_9879.JPG
IMG_9879.JPG (783.67 KiB) Viewed 4189 times
Tried some new weathering techniques on this one. Weathering the planks was taken from Andrew's book - light sanding after painting.
The flexible rubber "ridge cap" that allows the top doors to open is a piece of heat shrink.
The galvanised roof/lids were done with a zinc-laden spray paint I normally use on corrugated iron buildings. Some overspray with other colours, and a dusty acrylic wash followed.
And the chipped angle iron along the sides was done by applying dark grey acrylic with a sponge, (sponge chipping) followed by carefully "dotting" the grey with a rusty brown enamel wash. This was then spread and "bled out" using a brush dampened with white spirit.
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by ge_rik » Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:57 pm

I love the finish. Especially the woodwork.

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by FWLR » Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:36 am

Keith S wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:12 am I had my "Billy" out on its portable oval this summer with the zecar momentum van I originally started this thread with. I took a couple of short videos to show its performance. The locomotive is completely manual and although the deck is level, the track is pretty rough. Obviously the engine speeds up on the straight bits, but overall this van has continues to provide the performance I was hoping for. I stuffed the van with styrofoam after adding the steel plates, and I applied a heavy marine grease to the gears. It makes a bit of sound, but is mostly drowned out by the loco.

P.S. :Observant ones will notice: I let the train get rained on, and all the transfers on the right hand side of my "Gladstone" coach slid off!

https://youtu.be/KhP8p1GUO_k


https://youtu.be/FxcaVl-WyaI
Why haven't I seen these videos.... :dontknow:

Anyway Keith I am mightily impressed I really am. :notworthy:

Is that your 'Man Cave' by any chance, because I am so impressed by that also.. :thumbright:

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by FWLR » Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:40 am

Love the toolbox momentum van Arron. The weathering is brilliant and looks so real. :thumbright:

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Lonsdaler » Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:02 pm

Old Man Aaron wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:23 pm Well, it's only taken two years to get that momentum truck finished. As mentioned a few posts back, my intent was for this to be a former sugar cane truck, with an added molasses tank to hide the mechanism. I couldn't however figure out a tank design that would hide the mech, without looking too large and purpose-built - rather than the usual slapdash conversions you'd find in the canefields.

Instead, I've based it on a navvy toolbox wagon we have at the Woodford Railway.
IMG_9879.JPG

Tried some new weathering techniques on this one. Weathering the planks was taken from Andrew's book - light sanding after painting.
The flexible rubber "ridge cap" that allows the top doors to open is a piece of heat shrink.
The galvanised roof/lids were done with a zinc-laden spray paint I normally use on corrugated iron buildings. Some overspray with other colours, and a dusty acrylic wash followed.
And the chipped angle iron along the sides was done by applying dark grey acrylic with a sponge, (sponge chipping) followed by carefully "dotting" the grey with a rusty brown enamel wash. This was then spread and "bled out" using a brush dampened with white spirit.
Lovely toolbox van - another demonstration of why you're up there with Peter Butler in the modelling hierarchy. Well done!
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Peter Butler » Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:38 pm

Lonsdaler wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:02 pm

Lovely toolbox van - another demonstration of why you're up there with Peter Butler in the modelling hierarchy. Well done!
Very generous with your complements Phil, I'm most pleased to be compared with Aaron.
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Old Man Aaron » Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:33 pm

Peter Butler wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:38 pm
Lonsdaler wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 12:02 pm

Lovely toolbox van - another demonstration of why you're up there with Peter Butler in the modelling hierarchy. Well done!
Very generous with your complements Phil, I'm most pleased to be compared with Aaron.

And I, you! We're all still learning something new. My weathering is always a bit made-up-on-the-fly and I'm never fully happy with it - I find the trick is to know when to stop messing with the finish. :roll:
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