Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by GTB » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:19 pm

Old Man Aaron wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:36 am I've plans for another two momentum wagons, as rakes of sugarcane trucks don't have guard's vans attached.
Given you are near the old Moreton Mill, you could look at putting the Zecar mech in a little water gin for use on the steam hauled cane trains. The chassis and sound barrier of the dunny van looks about the right size.

The Krauss Moreton used to run around with a dinky water gin with a square tank, often with a few bags of extra coal on the top. Still runs with it in 'preservation' I think, even though the poor old thing now has a diesel engine parked where the sun don't shine..... I've also seen photos of Valdora with both a 4 wheel water gin coupled at one end and a dinky wooden coal 'tender' at the other end.

Lead flashing makes a good acoustic barrier, as well as providing the weight needed in a momentum wagon.

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Graeme

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Garethh » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:21 pm

Managed to get out in between showers for a quick test run, tricky driving with one hand a filming with the other, but should give an idea. Definitely calms her down a fair bit, especially considering the gradients and curves on my line are pretty severe. Is a bit on the noisy side but I live next to a main road so in the flesh it’s not really noticeable.


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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:40 pm

When I built mine years ago I had to weigh the wagon down a fair bit to achieve a good result:



I don't have a video of the finished wagon running unfortunately.

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Garethh » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:23 pm

Yours looks like it works nicely. Mines at around 6-700g at the moment, may experiment with a bit more weight

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Old Man Aaron » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:30 am

Water tank, there's an idea..
Aye, the one behind Moreton had a proper little coal & water tender built in (I think?) the early 20's. It's now privately preserved along with the Fowler Coolum. From memory, Moreton's current tender is made of plywood, housing the diesel engine, driving an ex-Burrunjuck Tramway bogey.
Valdora's funny little tender was just a cane truck with sides added!I know the photos showing the water tank you mentioned; looking at it now, it's mounted on a Binnie erm, wait, Hudson skip frame, and has no water connection to the loco. I believe Valdora was the navvy loco during the slack season, and the water tank used in that work. You've given me something to think about..

Thanks for showing us your van running Garethh. My first line was like yours in it's grades and 2ft curves. Had I van like yours at the time, the line would've had far more use. Also loving the grass and weeds encroaching on your track.

Regards,
Aaron
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Aaron - Scum Class Works

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Garethh » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:10 am

Thanks Aaron, I wish it was a bit less severe but it’s not a big garden. I’ll take the compliment on the weeds and grass and pretends it’s not just because I can’t find time to sort it out!

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:10 pm

After another one of my seemingly interminable pauses in the progress of the Charnwood Forest Light Railway things are finally stirring again. (Brace yourselves for further (sporadic) updates on my CFLR topic in the 'Railways' section).

Achieving at least some sort of scale speed and 'controlability' is crucial to me gaining any sort of satisfaction from model railways of any scale or gauge. The CFLR hasn't yet reached a stage where anything other than a bit of 'steaming up and down' is possible but the day is coming when some sort of service will commence and when that happens it will need to look right or I will get brassed off. Consequently one project which has long lain dormant, the construction of a momentum van, is being re-activated.

I've finally got round to investing in a Zcar (well, it is Christmas!). In preparation for making a start I've re-read this thread to try and determine the best line of attack. I'm really impressed with Garethh's approach of linking the mechanism to the axle with a chain drive. Has anyone got any suggestions about the best place to buy chain and drive gears from please?

CFLR Andrew
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by philipy » Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:45 pm

Soar Valley Light wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:10 pm Has anyone got any suggestions about the best place to buy chain and drive gears from please?

Look on ebay for "Delrin chain" and it will have the gears as well. Wherever you get it from, it all comes from the same original imported source.
Philip

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 pm

Thanks Philip. I'll go and have a look.

This is one of the best of the many good things about this forum - instant help and advice. :thumbup:

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:21 pm

The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Garethh » Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:39 am

https://www.motionco.co.uk/ - think I got mine from this place, they do some useful bits and pieces

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:11 pm

Thanks Peter, Thanks Gareth.

I ordered an IP brake van yesterday to house the beast. I'll wait for the van to arrive and give it a good coat of looking at then peruse the two sites you've suggested to source the 'bits'. I've not done any serious building for years, I'm quite looking forward to it. I'm not rushing into it mind, I find things work out much better if taken steadily to allow the details of the build to be thoroughly thought through. I shall probably break off to push the next turnout through the works too. I want to be ready to crack on with the actual railway again as soon as the weather picks up in spring, I'm determined to progress things much further this year than I have for the past 10 (!). The monentum van is an important part of being ready to start proper operations.

All the best,

CFLR Andrew
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"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by pippindoo » Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:01 pm

https://www.swiftsixteen.co.uk/product- ... -chain-set

Theres this Delrin chain and sprocket set from Swift Sixteen if it's any good Andrew?

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Soar Valley Light » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:29 pm

Thanks Pippindoo,

That's another potential supplier to add to the list. :thumbright:
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by philipy » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:26 pm

Soar Valley Light wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:29 pm Thanks Pippindoo,

That's another potential supplier to add to the list. :thumbright:
As I said, they all get it from the one importer, so go for the cheapest, it's all the same. :D
Philip

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Old Man Aaron » Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:24 am

Soar Valley Light wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:10 pm Achieving at least some sort of scale speed and 'controlability' is crucial to me gaining any sort of satisfaction from model railways of any scale or gauge. It will need to look right or I will get brassed off.
Couldn't agree more. I'd sooner not have a loco, than an uncontrollable one. Looking forward to seeing what comes of your railway and zecar.

Incidentally, The original pair of Zecars I'd ordered from Kikkerland back in March 2020 never arrived, and after contacting them in August I'd still heard nothing. By November, I thought I'd make a last-ditch through the "contact us" page of their website. Not expecting a reply, I thought "dear this" then went to EvilBay, and bought another pair from someone else. Amazingly, a reply from Kikkerland was in my inbox the next day, and they promptly mailed out a replacement pair of Zecars free-of-charge - arriving from the US in a week, which was doubly impressive.

So, assuming the Evilbay pair actually arrive, (I'm a bit skeptical of this, as I've had several packages from the US go missing over 2020) my number of momentum wagons will in 2021, grow from one, to five! Assuming I can think of appropriate wagons in which to hide the Zecars.. So far, it's a tool wagon, a farmers' molasses tank wagon, and a small van from Swift16..

Regards,
Aaron
Last edited by Old Man Aaron on Wed May 12, 2021 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Lonsdaler » Tue May 11, 2021 10:14 pm

After I bought my first steam locomotive in 2014, I found Zach's article about the momentum van, and like many, I decided to have a go with a Zecar friction drive. I constructed a goods van freelance from plasticard, scored to give the plank effect, and scaled to suit the Zecar chassis (a bit squat and dumpy), fitted 25mm wheels in place of the supplied ones, and shortened the axles to fit within some dummy axleguards. This was the end result, from below
Image

And viewed side on
Image

I weighted the van with lead sheet to about 500 grams, and also applied some foam packing to the interior to try and reduce the awful whine which emanated from the drive. In trials, I found the results to be variable, and felt that the main problem was the short chassis length, which seemed to make the van work sometimes, but not others (someone earlier identified that the driven wheels need to be located at the locomotive end - not something I had considered when I ran my trial).
Eventually I replaced the Zecar with standard axles, and continue to use the van as a regular part of my stock.

Re-reading this thread a few weeks ago, I noticed that Simon Wood had combined 2 Zecars to make a momentum van, something that I had considered but taken no further when I decommissioned the Zecar unit from mine. Having acquired, some time ago, a goods van (I think an Andel models kit) which proved a poor runner, mainly due to the axle spacing on it and it's light weight, I began to consider a second attempt.

Having kept an eye on Zecars on Amazon over the intervening years, I noticed that prices (from a peak of nearly £30 a couple of years ago), were now more reasonable at about £12. I took the plunge and purchased another (having first made sure I still had the old one safely stored :scratch:).
Not for me the easy route of placing both devices in line, or angled so the undriven axle is within the body of the van. I decided to indulge in some bodgelling, attacked both carcasses with my Dremel, and then very skilfully cobbled the two surviving parts together with some brass plate and nuts and bolts. The axleguards are IP, and the axle stubs are retained in the brass bushes within the guards. so far, it all appears to be smooth running.
This is the stage I'm at at the moment - still to do is - install weighting, add foam insulation for noise suppression, refurbish and repaint. I'll update as it goes.
Image
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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by SimonWood » Thu May 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Lonsdaler wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:14 pm Re-reading this thread a few weeks ago, I noticed that Simon Wood had combined 2 Zecars to make a momentum van, something that I had considered but taken no further when I decommissioned the Zecar unit from mine. Having acquired, some time ago, a goods van (I think an Andel models kit) which proved a poor runner, mainly due to the axle spacing on it and it's light weight, I began to consider a second attempt.
Wow that's vastly neater than my effort! Mine is currently disassembled, to be rebuilt into a new wagon when the round tuits arrive, with a bit more thought on my part on designing in sufficient weight in the wagon. I'm also tempted to compare how a two flywheel wagon compares to a single flywheel wagon with "4WD" as it were... but since I haven't yet found time to rebuild the original wagon let alone construct a second, my findings are not going to be published for some considerable time...

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Lonsdaler » Thu May 13, 2021 6:20 pm

SimonWood wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:18 pm
Wow that's vastly neater than my effort!
You're very kind Simon, but I think the camera angle disguises the bodgelling quite well! This is the unit ready to put into the van body, the two halves are connected by a brass strip either side. The carcase of the van is cleaned and ready to be repainted in GWLR colour(s) as soon as the weather pretends to be dry :roll:
Image
SimonWood wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:18 pm Mine is currently disassembled, to be rebuilt into a new wagon when the round tuits arrive, with a bit more thought on my part on designing in sufficient weight in the wagon. I'm also tempted to compare how a two flywheel wagon compares to a single flywheel wagon with "4WD" as it were... but since I haven't yet found time to rebuild the original wagon let alone construct a second, my findings are not going to be published for some considerable time...
As I intimated, I wasn't that impressed with a single mechanism and I'm still not convinced that this will be any better, but we shall see.
Phil

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Re: Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

Post by Old Man Aaron » Sat May 15, 2021 2:41 am

Zecar or not, that's a very cute little van.

Looking forward to hearing how the second mechanism goes.
Regards,
Aaron - Scum Class Works

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