Zach Bond "Momentum Van" project

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cheshire
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axles

Post by cheshire » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:01 am

The axles are also a perfect fit for W&L Accucraft wheels too. I have mounted the Zecar so that only one axle is used, moving the old axle boxes in by exactly the width of 2 coffee stirrers per side so the axles of the Zecar can sit in the bearings. Its revolutionised my Silver Lady which always raced away and stalled on curves. As an aside, all my wagons are heavily weighted with lead, so you don't get the wagon pushing the train as much, its just like a brake on straights and an extra help on tight curves. Thanks for the idea, one of the best £14 I have ever spent!! Any ideas now what to put on the top of the flat wagon to disguise the flywheel? Needs to look good with freight and passenger trains? Thanks
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philipy
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Post by philipy » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:21 am

How about disguising with a furniture container? BR had many types in the 50's and one chained down on your flat would look good in any train.

Plenty of info here:
http://mike.da2c.org/igg/rail/5-unit/unitload1.htm
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Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:46 am

That is good suggestion by Phil, would look just right:

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Andrew
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Re: axles

Post by Andrew » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:59 am

cheshire:110434 wrote:Image[/url][/img]
Oooh, that looks good! How have you supported the end of the Zecar's body to keep it at that angle?

I reckon I'd go for some sort of crate to hide the mechanism too...

Cheers,

Andrew

cheshire
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zecar

Post by cheshire » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:53 pm

The wheels are held in the axle boxes and the body is epoxy glued with a coffee stirrer on the top of the wagon. Much of the railway is fixed / mended / built with a coffee stirrer!!

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Keith S
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Post by Keith S » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:50 pm

I'm thinking of ordering another "zecar". Maybe I'll put one in a coach, so I'll have a goods and passenger one.

The package says part of the profit from these things goes to rain forests or something...

You fellows will post some videos of your train's performance with the new momentum wagons, won't you?

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Post by robyholmes » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:26 pm

How easy do you think this would be to fit to a roundhouse tender (4 wheeled). I've ordered the zecar and hope to order the tender kit soon as part of a coal fired Billy I'm building.

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Keith S
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Post by Keith S » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:07 pm

Roundhouse tenders (at least the one I have) are a bit different underneath than a wagon, they have a brass sub-chassis that the axles fit into and the axle-boxes on the frames are non-functioning. I'm sure you could fit a flywheel device to the tender but it might not be as easy as hacking into a wooden wagon body. If it was me, I'd prefer to put the thing in a trailing wagon, and save the tender for coal and water.

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Re: axles

Post by Marquis DeCarabas » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:05 pm

cheshire:110434 wrote:The axles are also a perfect fit for W&L Accucraft wheels too. I have mounted the Zecar so that only one axle is used, moving the old axle boxes in by exactly the width of 2 coffee stirrers per side so the axles of the Zecar can sit in the bearings.
I'm confused (quite easy when it comes to anything apart from signalling) - when you say that you've moved the old axleboxes "in" - what "in" do you mean?

Do you a) mean away from the headstocks and "in" towards the centre line of the wagon or b) narrowed them in relative to the gauge?
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Post by tom_tom_go » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:58 pm

I got mine in the post today and got on with removing the original wheels which will rust nicely in my scrap yard :)

As I run 32mm the axles on the Zecar are not long enough to allow the use of axle boxes other than for cosmetic use:

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I would prefer the axles sit in axle boxes so I reckon I will replace these.

I want to get this running as soon as possible to test so rather than spend extra time extending the wheel base which to me does not look right in 16mm would suit more a 7/8ths tender wagon based on what the Penrhyn use to operate.

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Keith S
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Post by Keith S » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:05 pm

I don't understand. Shouldn't the axles on the ZeCar have been TOO long? Or did you somehow get one with shorter axles?

Your plan is exactly the same as mine. I wanted to get something on the rails for testing before I invested any time making a better-looking wagon.

It would be great to see a video of "steamy Clare" or "Smoky Sophie" in action once you have the wagon working!

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Re: axles

Post by cheshire » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:40 am

]I'm confused (quite easy when it comes to anything apart from signalling) - when you say that you've moved the old axleboxes "in" - what "in" do you mean?

Do you a) mean away from the headstocks and "in" towards the centre line of the wagon or b) narrowed them in relative to the gauge?[/quote]

The axles are about 5mm shorter than the original Accucraft axle the the wheels came from so in order for the axles to actually sit in the axle boxes (which effectively fixes that end of the Zecar to the wagon) either the wagon frames or the axle boxes needed moving closer together. So that's why the coffee sirrers came into use. It seems some Zecars are different to others, and not just cosmetically! Hope this makes more sense.

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Post by Dr. Bond of the DVLR » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:32 pm

Its more likely that accucraft axleboxes and sole bars are particularly far out (relative to the gauge) than others - remembering that on mine I put the solebars on to suit the zecar and KeithSs one was built with the axle boxes to suit the zecar. It's unlikely that some products have shorter axles than others. Of course the simplest solution would be for 2 people to get a ruler and measure their zecars' axles
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Post by Tony Bird » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:32 pm

Hi,

I have had a go at fitting the flywheel unit from the Postman Pat Greendale Rocket toy as shown earlier in this thread. The unit is a lot smaller than the Zecar one and has only one axle, its gear ratio is 1:46 and all the gear wheels are plastic/nylon running in plastic bearings the only metal bits other than the screws are the flywheel and its axle. The axle as fitted is long enough to take wheels for both G1 and 0 gauge. If outside bearings are needed as the axle is 3mm in diameter a longer one is easily fitted and Binnie wheels could be used. I decided to increase the axle size to 1/8" and use IPE 24mm wagon wheels. The plastic gear was pushed onto the slightly larger 1/8" axle without a problem and the bearingsfor the axle were made a little larger. The wagon chosen for the test was made from a Mamod log wagon chassis fitted with 24mm Binnie wheels and had an old pot boiler fitted to it to make it into a tanker wagon.

ImageImage

The flywheel gear box is 24 mm wide so will easily fit between 0 gauge wheels.

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Any bits not needed were removed from the gear box frame which fitted well into the Mamod chassis.

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Copying Alan Palmer the axles were connected by chain and the exposed gears covered.

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As the finished wagon looks.

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The wagon when pulled by an electric model locomotive is heavy enough to start the flywheel revolving on a dry track. If found necessary the weight of the wagon can be increased by putting sand in the tank. I cannot easily test the wagon as my garden railway is flat and has no sharp curves and the garden railway at the Cardiff Model Engineering Society is very similar, so it will have to wait until it is run on a suitable hilly or tightly curved track to check it out. I cannot see that it wouldn't perform as well as other similar wagons.

Regards Tony.

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Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:43 pm

I cut the wheels off as I could not get the original wheels to slide off the axles.

I have measured the axles after cutting plus the pieces left in the metal wheels and they only measure around 50mm.

So if the axles had been longer I would not have had to try and replace them which has resulted in the crap plastic sprocket breaking while I tried to remove the axle :evil:

Any ideas of where I can find a brass replacement?  I need it to fit a 1/8in axle and I reckon it needs to be either a 38 or 40 tooth sprocket.

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Post by Keith S » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:16 pm

Tony that's an interesting variation. I'm looking forward to hearing how it works. I think it still would be worth testing it even on your track, to see how your various engines cope with it and see the effect it has on slow running.

Lacking a proper track has prevented me from giving my wagon a decent test, other than on the workbench. I managed to get about a 18 foot run on the basement floor, with some curves at either end and a straight bit in the middle. I tried the wagon out with another weighted wagon behind it to simulate a train. It was promising: if you set the regulator just right it marches into the curves more purposefully and maintains a steady pace. On a long straight stretch, if it is given enough space, the locomotive is still able to build up to a fairly brisk pace, I think this will work best on a railway which doesn't have straight bits that are long enough to let the train build up a lot of speed. A curve here and there would control the average velocity pretty well, because it takes a long run to accelerate and if you could interrupt this with a curve, it would have to start building up speed all over again leaving the curve. Of course radio control would make that easier.

I think what I like most about the device is the long, steady acceleration it gives the train. If the locomotive does happen to stall on a curve, it doesn't build up steam and suddenly burst away again, it slowly and steadily chuffs away in a gratifying manner.

This has all got me curious about using the centrifugal brake from a rotary-dial phone, putting it on the other axle and then the wagon would not only provide momentum, but would limit top speed as well.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how others get on with this project; I am mildly frustrated now that I don't have a railway, I can't properly enjoy the benefits of this device or properly test it.

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Post by Alan P » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:53 pm

Guys. I've been following this thread with interest and i think that the Zecar must have had a few variations in it's build over the years.

The gears on mine are all metal.

The wheels were removed very easily by resting them on a small vice with the axle between the jaws and just gently tapping the end of the axle with a drift.

Unlike Keith's and Cheshire's excellent wagons mine doesn't have the support of axles boxes. The axles just run in the original Zecar chassis. It's had quite a bit of use since last September and seems to be holding up fine, saying that, my line has some tight curves but is generally flat.

Tony, having already seen pics of your Mamod Tanker Wagon, i really must make one of those, i will be very interested to see how it performs with it's latest mod.

After consultation with the esteemed Mr Bond during the construction of my MV the final weight of the completed wagon was 620g. This seems to be a good working weight.
Alan.

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Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:12 pm

Yes, I seem to have the nasty cheap version!

Spent hours looking at gears/sprockets and have no idea what to buy so Keith as you have no railway I can test your van out for you if you send it my way haha ;)

Good luck with your builds.

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Keith S
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Post by Keith S » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:22 am

I hope you're not giving up! There must be a gear out there, or failing that, maybe you could use the flywheel and a chain drive to build something similar and better.

I briefly considered sending you my van, but then realized it wouldn't work on your railway anyway, being 45mm gauge.

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Post by Peter Butler » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:25 pm

Having followed this thread from the beginning I just couldn't resist the challenge! My Zecar arrived in the post this morning and I am very impressed with its construction, especially for the price.

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Mine has extended axles which will protrude well past the wheel gauge and into axle boxes. I will only use the powered axle on the track with the other raised so that the wheelbase can be extended.
My idea is to scratchbuild a tender for my 'Billie' so it can be permanently attached for forward or reverse running.
Other projects must be finished first so there might be some slight delay in posting results.
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