(WH)WHR Rolling Stock

[Andrew]

There is one thing that always fascinates me (I first noticed this effect on my 5" geuge wagons): you have a wagon body with "bits put on it". Nails, Rivets, handrails,...That´s how it looks.
Then after the paint is on, it looks like it is one piece.

I completely agree! I feel like I don't really know what a model looks like until I add a coat of primer to bring all the bits together.

I would only do a light weathering to that wagon.

Ah.

Photos at the weekend!

[Andrew]

Andrew,
don't know if you were watching Ffestiniog webcams at 9-40 am (your time). A goods train came into Minffordd headed by a small England, with what looked like (to my untrained eye!) two of your recently modelled grey coal wagons in the consist. Also noticed two of the old bolster wagons that Peter modelled so well some time back.
Grant.

No, alas not, I have to at least make a show of working some of the time...

I'll have a look at lunchtime though, as I did yesterday. I think they're running a series of annual (and presumably expensive!) photo charters at the moment, featuring multiple locos and trains. The goods train is looking marvelous, I think. One of the grey wagons is indeed the one I've just attempted - number 166, which was (probably) 23 in pre-preservation days. I think the other one you're looking at is one of the tipplers converted from a 3 ton slate wagon - it was the first wagon in the rake yesterday and has just returned to service. I've built three of those recently too, in collaboration with Philip who produced a wonderful kit of parts for me.

I'm contemplating running a train of all metal-bodied wagons in he coming weeks, featuring the tipplers, the coal wagon, the GPV, the brine tank and the two Croesor tramway opens - there's no historical precedent that I know of, I just like the idea of running a heavy rusty train...

Cheers,

Andrew.

[LNR]

Yes Andrew, I noticed as the train arrived at Tan y Bwlch that the second grey wagon did look different. Noticed two crew walking either side of the stationary train feeling the axle boxes for heat.
Grant.
PS heavy rusty train sounds the perfect reason to me.

[Andrew]

Morning all!

Work from home on Thursday gave me extra daylight time at home, so I finished the weathering on the Ffestiniog Coal wagon - and here it is:

Iron coal wagon 6.jpg (145.48 KiB) Viewed 2769 times

Iron coal wagon 7.jpg (141.92 KiB) Viewed 2769 times

Iron coal wagon 8.jpg (161.62 KiB) Viewed 2769 times

It's not a perfect recreation of the real thing, but I'm pretty happy with it. I was hoping to give it a test run today, but the rain's put me off that idea. Unfortunately, it's less free-running than it was before I painted it. I sprayed it with the axles in place, having pushed the wheels to the middle of the axle to mask them. When I pushed them back they seem to have forced a "sleeve" of paint along the axle ahead of them and into the axleboxes. I'm hoping it'll sort itself out with a little running, because removing the axleboxes now will probably damage them/the body/the paint job. We shall see...

It's back on with the FR van now - I wanted to spray the chassis this morning so headed out into the garden with an umbrella to beat the rain. Hardly best practice, but did anyone ever mind too much about the finish of the underside of goods wagons?

Cheers,

Andrew.

[philipy]

That rusting is absolutely fantastic!
When I first opened that picture I genuinely thought you had posted a picture of the prototype and expected to see your model below it.

[Peter Butler]

The exterior rusting is so realistic, I am really impressed with the effect you have created there. I'm sure you have explained the process before, but a recap would be most appreciated.

[ge_rik]

As others have said, really excellent looking rust!
Personally. I'd be reluctant to load it with too much coal. It looks like the base and the sides will very soon part company .....

Rik

[LNR]

I can only agree with what's already been said, great job on the weathering. Wondering if a piece of cotton thread pulled between the axle box and wheel would ease out anything stuck there, particularly if it's dry.
Grant.

[FWLR]

Nice that Andrew

[Andrew]

Thanks for the kind comments, they're very much appreciated.

I think I have waffled on about rusting techniques before, but this thread now runs to over 50 pages and spans a decade, so I wouldn't expect to read back through it!

Essentially, they're a synthesis of techniques borrowed from others (including some on here), that I've evolved to meet my own needs.

The basic ingredient is iron powder, seeming sold mostly for science experiments in schools. Ideally, you want nice fine stuff - I experimented with courser filings and was disappointed with the result.

I paint (and letter) the body, let it dry, then apply more paint just where I want the rust to be - looking at pictures of the real thing is best, but I tend to go for where water would collect or paint would be damaged.

While that paint's still wet, I apply the powder (pretty liberally) from an old Lidl container that originally dispensed peppercorns, using the same technique that Blue Peter presenters use to apply glitter to cardboard boxes, over a sheet of newspaper so that any excess that doesn't stick can be poured back into the pot.

Once that's dry, and where it seems appropriate, I use the body colour to paint over the powder for a couple of millimetres around the edge of each rust patch - the idea is that once the powder turns to rust, it'll look like it's eating away beneath the paint too. It also helps soften the edges of the rust patches - if you look closely, some of mine end a little abruptly, which doesn't look right. It's possible I need to extend those "transition zones", maybe up to say 5mm in places.

After all of that, it's time to "activate" the rust. I've used two techniques, one involving vinegar, the other copper suplhate solution. Again, the latter is sold for schools, but send me a message if you'd like some, a little goes a very long way, and I seem to have a lifetime's worth! Either way, you can spray it on with an old spray bottle or apply with a brush.

I've no idea what the chemistry behind it is, but my experience is that vinegar produces older looking black/brown rust, whereas copper sulphate makes very new looking bright orange rust. I've not tried it (I should), but I'm guessing that different concentrates of the the solution would yield different results. Vinegar takes longer to act, and can be sped up a little by leaving the model in a steamy bathroom or similar, and the dark brown rust can be enlivened a little by rubbing with wire wool.

I think I'm going to stick with copper sulphate in future - it's quick and reliable, and although the rust is rather too startlingly orange for most applications (again, experimentation with concentration is called for...), that can be toned down - that's the next stage...

Next, it's on to general weathering. I usually start with a wash of dilute black or dark grey paint, slightly more concentrated for a coal wagon. I use acrylics for painting wagons, so add a drop of washing up liquid to help it get into the nooks and crannies. Then I wipe it off again with a down (ie rain)-ward motion of a dry cloth - it remains in the aforementioned crannies. Then, I add a gunky brown wash to the lower bits of the wagon, wiping upwards to represent dirt splashed up by rain, or from the wheels. Those washes will permeate the rust (whether you want them to or not, to an extent!), toning down the colour, and this can be adapted to suit your requirements.

I generally replicate less established rust (just a general rusty patina) by dry brushing, again downwards, using a palette of orange and brown acrylics. This looks especially good around rivet detail etc, although it occasionally, and annoyingly, it dislodges them! Where I've got a patch of "real" rust, the same technique can be used to represent rain streaking - I think that went pretty well on the coal wagon. I'm quite careful to mix a good approximation of the colour of the patch, which then gets a little more orangey as it runs down the wagon - that seems to be how the real thing looks.

And that's it. Practice makes perfect - I'm a long way from there, but I'm getting better!

Cheers,

Andrew.

PS I'll try to illustrate the above with pictures some time...

[Peter Butler]

Absolutely wonderful Andrew, excellent description and superb results! I will definitely give your method a try now all is made clear.
I have just ordered iron powder, which I hope is the correct grade (Ultra fine), and will now try to source copper sulphate solution.
Many thanks for your time.

[FWLR]

Thats pretty good Andrew, ...no it's an excellent post.

Seems I like to say that twice...

[SimonWood]

Good grief, that is incredible. Absolutely stunning and highly realistic.

I was going to ask about the rusting technique but scrolling down I've seen it's been asked, and answered. Definitely going to give your whole approach a try!

[Andrew]

Thanks Simon!

To give credit where it's due, much of the rusting technique, particularly the use of Copper Sulphate, is derived from the Pen-y-Bont thread: https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... e&start=30

Cheers,

Andrew.

[Andrew]

Back before I was distracted by the coal truck, I was distracted by an "H Jones Engineering" kit for the Ffestiniog van currently numbered 99, which was originally 116.

I've built the kit into what I hope is the van's 20s/30s guise, in the process embellishing it with individual plank overlays and rivets, swapping some of the strapping for chunkier alternatives, and adding some extra brake detail.

Here it is posing for its official photograph, and then going for a quick test run...

Van 116 test A.jpg (297.24 KiB) Viewed 2995 times

Van 116 test B.jpg (351.18 KiB) Viewed 2995 times

Van 116 test D.jpg (438.73 KiB) Viewed 2995 times

Van 116 test E.jpg (383.77 KiB) Viewed 2995 times

I'm thinking a "Christmas Mail" train featuring a variety of vans might be fun - watch this space!

Cheers,

Andrew.

[FWLR]

Very very nice that van is Andrew.

A Christmas Mail train would be an excellent idea, for which I think you are doing secretly

[ge_rik]

I like the subtle weathering

Rik

[Andrew]

I like the subtle weathering

Thanks Rik - I wanted to go for "work worn" rather than "worn out" with this one...

[SimonWood]

Absolutely agree the weather is brilliant. Stunning job.

[Andrew]

Famous last words, of course, but I thought I'd try to squeeze in just a quick little project before Christmas.

Inspired by JMORG of this forum, indeed by his words on this very thread, I'm having a go at using a couple of Lineside Hut slate wagon kits to recreate a pair of the NWNGR's wooden slate wagons, as seen in this builders photo (courtesy of Gloucestershire Record Office, D4791/16/1):

Gloucester slate wagon A.png (160.07 KiB) Viewed 3904 times

At first glance, it's pretty similar to the Ffestiniog's wooden slate wagons, so my first attempt at a model used the classic Binnie kit. The problem is it's clearly too narrow, so Take Two involves Lineside Hut's wider wagons intended to run on 45mm track, as suggested by JMORG. LH kindly made me a special version of the kit, with an extra chassis piece, so I can use larger wheels of the correct pattern.

So far, I've made up the kits, with various minor modifications along the way, including biro inner tube slices on the uprights to represent the "bobbins", extra planks along the sides, and Binnie axleboxes. I've pinched the distinctive brake handle from the original Binnie version, which will revert almost to its original FR guise as art of the project.

Before I undertake lettering and weathering, I thought I'd temporarily put it together and try a quick recreation of the works photo - and here it is:

Gloucester slate wagon B (2).jpg (133.21 KiB) Viewed 3904 times

You can clearly tell that it's an approximation rather than an accurate model but it (and its unbraked twin) are turning into quite attractive models, I think...

Cheers all,

Andrew