Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

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Bodelwyddan
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Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by Bodelwyddan » Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:26 pm

This is my first posting on this forum, so I hope I am doing things right! I am very new to 16mm scale, but have been a modeller in 4mm and 7mm for a number of years, and have loitered around this forum for a few weeks.

Having scratch built a couple of buildings in 7mm, I have decided I wanted to create a small diorama style indoor layout in 16mm scale, using 32mm track, primarily for doing some photo projects, but I also fancy scratch building some narrow gauge style carriages or wagons - more to prove to myself I can do it! The diorama itself will not be anything too adventurous but I would like it to resemble a fictional location in North Wales, being something of an 1930s WHR and FR fan. My eventual hope is that I may be able to save up for a Roundhouse Harlech Castle and/or Slo-Mo fitted Lady Anne model, which would allow the diorama to develop into a small shunting layout at some point in the future - I have been a big fan of Steve Howard and his Hambleden Valley Railway exhibition layout for a long time.

If it is acceptable, I will probably create a thread in the ‘Projects’ part of the forum to show the development of the diorama layout itself, but as my first task is going to be an item of rolling stock, it seemed logical to post in here. Could anyone tell me who does 16mm suitable rail, sleepers and track chairs, as the diorama will need some track and the odd point or two building before I go too far with it.

I have some ideas for stock, but my first task is to build a bogie brake composite. I wondered if anyone on here could direct me as to where the best place for wheels/bearings/bogie components are? Also, can any of you suggest the best way of ‘mating’ the bogies to the body so that the body does not unduly rock or wobble as it moves? The bodies themselves will be made of ply, and I am thinking some thin ply will be ‘shapable’ to make the curved roofs.

For four-wheeled wagons I wagon going to use the ND18 Leaf Spring Wagon Axleguards from Dean Goods - although I am open to suggestions - can anyone suggest to me, sorry for yet another question, the best wheels/bearings to use with these? I am still learning about potential suppliers of the various items.

I dont have much spare time between work and family life, so the project will probably be a slow burn, but the aim is to try and do something that does not significantly involve computers, tablets and phones - ie modern day life! So apologies if at times I do not reply quickly.

Richie

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by -steves- » Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:42 pm

Firstly, welcome to the forum :D

I am of no help and am unable to point you in any direction for your particular project, however, this sounds like a fantastic project and I look forward to see it progress :thumbup:
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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by philipy » Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:05 pm

Hi Richie and welcome.

Firstly, yes please, do start a project thread.

Then, I can give you a few answers but to answer all of your points fully would take all night! :lol:

For track the easiest place to start is with Peco, quite a reasonable range and widely available. However you mentioned the individual components, so, if you intend to build it yourself Cliff Barker always gets favourable comments on here from those members who use his bits and pieces.

Personally I do quite often use Swiftsixteen for coach/wagon wheels, but there are others.

If you haven't found it yet, we do have a quite comprehensive suppliers list, towards the bottom of the Board Index page.
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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by ge_rik » Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:07 pm

Hi Richie
Welcome to the forum. It sounds like your project is going to be really interesting. I'm sure you'll get a following of avid readers.

Regarding the track. It sounds like you want to construct your own rather than using Peco ready made track. In which case Cliff Barker's products will probably suit your needs - http://www.cliffbarker.me.uk/

I'll leave it to others to suggest sources of wheels etc. IP Engineering would be my first port of call but I think there are other suppliers who produce good quality gear.

Rik
PS looks like Philip has just beaten me to it ......
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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:46 pm

Welcome Richie, I'm also looking forward to following your railway project. As you are experienced in 7mm railway modelling I'm sure you are aware of the huge range of 16mm narrow gauge kits and wheels available from Slaters Plastikard. They are highly detailed and very well made.
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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by RadioActiveGnome » Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:25 pm

Bodelwyddan wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:26 pm I have some ideas for stock, but my first task is to build a bogie brake composite. I wondered if anyone on here could direct me as to where the best place for wheels/bearings/bogie components are? Also, can any of you suggest the best way of ‘mating’ the bogies to the body so that the body does not unduly rock or wobble as it moves? The bodies themselves will be made of ply, and I am thinking some thin ply will be ‘shapable’ to make the curved roofs
Fair few bogie kits are available, but the cheapest i've found is the binnie hudson bogie.
majority of the bogie kits just have a hole in the middle for a bolt to slot through, so you could probably just drill a hole for a bolt in the bottom of the carriage and use a nut to hold it on like i've done with this one
Image
well, i glued a washer to the bolt but it hasn't fallen off yet so it's good enough for me.
Binnie also sells wheels and axleboxes in pairs of 8 and they seem to be the cheapest available, but they're not metal so you won't get a satisfying clickety-clack noise with them.

Best way to reduce wobbling is to lower the centre of gravity using heavy weights.

you might also want to put a spring on the bolt so the chassis lifts away from the bogies, reduces wear and tear slightly and can prevent the bogies catching on the chassis on tight corners, but that problem might be unique to my building quality.
Bodelwyddan wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:26 pm My eventual hope is that I may be able to save up for a Roundhouse Harlech Castle and/or Slo-Mo fitted Lady Anne model
you've probably already found out, but the roundhouse lady anne is also available as a kit, and it's a fair bit cheaper as a kit too.
if you do decide to go with the kit i recommend getting the roundhouse multitool with it, fitting the starlock washers will be the most difficult part of the build without it.

Not to sound like a broken record, but i also recommend cliff barkers track, i used that for my railway and i've found it's much easier to bend than other brands.
Admittedly the main reason i went with it was because it was the cheapest track at the time and i think it still is.
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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by Bodelwyddan » Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:46 pm

Well thank you all for the welcome and for your kindness in your thoughts and comments.
-steves- wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:42 pm I am of no help and am unable to point you in any direction for your particular project, however, this sounds like a fantastic project and I look forward to see it progress :thumbup:
Steve thanks for your kind welcome, and your encouraging words!
philipy wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:05 pm Firstly, yes please, do start a project thread.

For track the easiest place to start is with Peco, quite a reasonable range and widely available. However you mentioned the individual components, so, if you intend to build it yourself Cliff Barker always gets favourable comments on here from those members who use his bits and pieces. Personally I do quite often use Swiftsixteen for coach/wagon wheels, but there are others.

If you haven't found it yet, we do have a quite comprehensive suppliers list, towards the bottom of the Board Index page.
Rik/Philip - thanks for the recommendation about Cliff Barker. I had not come across his site, but I have been and looked and yes that looks like an option. I quite enjoy track building in the smaller scales, so thought id have a go in 16mm!

I also had not found the suppliers list towards the bottom of the Board Index page. I am afraid I am one of those who is guilty of not scrolling down far enough!
Peter Butler wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:46 pm Welcome Richie, I'm also looking forward to following your railway project. As you are experienced in 7mm railway modelling I'm sure you are aware of the huge range of 16mm narrow gauge kits and wheels available from Slaters Plastikard. They are highly detailed and very well made.
Very kind of you Peter, I am really hoping I can live up to expectation here!! Also thanks for reminding me about the Slaters kits. I knew they did them but had totally forgotten - might have to have a look!
RadioActiveGnome wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:25 pm Fair few bogie kits are available, but the cheapest i've found is the binnie hudson bogie.
majority of the bogie kits just have a hole in the middle for a bolt to slot through, so you could probably just drill a hole for a bolt in the bottom of the carriage and use a nut to hold it on like i've done with this one Binnie also sells wheels and axleboxes in pairs of 8 and they seem to be the cheapest available, but they're not metal so you won't get a satisfying clickety-clack noise with them.
Thanks, I'll have a look at the Binnie Hudson bogies.
RadioActiveGnome wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:25 pm you've probably already found out, but the roundhouse lady anne is also available as a kit, and it's a fair bit cheaper as a kit too.
if you do decide to go with the kit i recommend getting the roundhouse multitool with it, fitting the starlock washers will be the most difficult part of the build without it.
Hmm I hadn't realised you could get the Roundhouse locos as a kit. While the fact that it makes it cheaper appeals to me, I am not sure if I have the engineering skills to try putting one together - and its a lot of cash to spend to find out I dont!! I'll certainly have a look though, I may at some point give Roundhouse a call and see if I can have a chat with somebody about that option.

Coach Plans
After posting on here earlier this afternoon, I have sat down and drawn out some plans for the coaches, which I think will be about 15" long with four compartments. I was hoping for five, but that would make them 18-19" long, which I think will look too lengthy. I am working the width and height to be similar to that of Lady Anne, so hopefully they will look in comparison. I do like the idea of the clerestory roof, so they might go slightly higher to trade off the lower compartment roof.

Richie

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:28 pm

If you are interested in clerestory coaching stock I highly recommend 'The Lineside Hut'. Their kits are well cut, easy to assemble, sensibly priced, and look great!....
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IMG_8220.JPG (111.01 KiB) Viewed 6192 times
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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by Bodelwyddan » Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:28 pm

Peter,
Thanks for that suggestion. I'll take a look, although one of my aims is to scratch build where I can so that I can say the entire c**k-*p, I mean project, is all my doing :P

Several people suggest Cliff Barker for track, does anyone have any views of steel, stainless steel or brass is best? The layout is going to be indoors, but given that live steam may possible run in the future, and I am not using the rails for electrical connectivity at all, I am assuming stainless steel will be the best option?
RadioActiveGnome wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:25 pm you've probably already found out, but the roundhouse lady anne is also available as a kit, and it's a fair bit cheaper as a kit too.
Looking at the various Roundhouse Kits, I have discovered that they do the chassis for Harlech/Criccieth on its own, for a reasonable amount. One thought is to look to build my own body shell out of etched nickel silver sheet, then fit it with some radio control/sound option.

Richie

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by philipy » Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:49 pm

Bodelwyddan wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:28 pm but given that live steam may possible run in the future, and I am not using the rails for electrical connectivity at all, I am assuming stainless steel will be the best option?
Each to his own, of course, but I would go with mild steel myself. Two reasons, 1) that if you are going to build your own track and pointwork you will need to solder up the frogs, if nothing else. 2) when did you ever see the sides of rails being shiny? I know you can paint them, as in the smaller scales, but real discolouration/corrosion is much more subtle and a lot less effort to do.
Philip

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by Andrew » Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:56 pm

Hello!

The whole thing sounds like a great project, I look forward to reading more...

I heartily approve of your WHR/FR inspiration for your scratchbulding, having spent at least 10 years now attempting to recreate vehicles from those lines! WHR vehicles in particular are great for scratchbuilders, because all the windows are square! If it's of interest, I wrote up my first attempt at scratchbuilding a WHR carriage (a Pickering brake composite in its cut-down guise) here: https://www.16mm.org.uk/2012/06/01/mom2012-06/. I think I'd use stripwood for the panelling on this one now, rather than cutting out a fret, but other than that it's still how I make this sort of carriage. For ones with more slender window pillars I use what I think is called a "ladder" technique, connecting the top and bottom bits of the sides with wood strip to represent the pillars, then adding more wood to provide strength and detail.

As you'll see in the article, I tend to use old Big Big Train bogies, still attached to their underframes, which I just screw to the floor. The detail's wrong, of course, but you don't really notice that, and the wheel diameter and spacing is correct. I guess they do wobble a bit, but not too badly.

Good luck with it all - keep us posted!

Andrew.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by jefran » Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:10 pm

As to how bogies might be attached, this is the underside of one of the CGR coaches I am working on at the moment
2022_0311Immidge0003.JPG
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This particular one is using some 3D printed parts as an experiment, but I have used brass before. The underframe weight is carried by the 5 5/32" ball bearings sandwiched between a plate on the underframe with the pivot in the middle and plate on the bogie; on the brass bogies the plate is part of the bogie, but I used a convenient brass disc in this case. The plain portion of the pivot is just long enough to leave a little up and down play when the 2BA nut is tightened up; up and down also means a bit of tilt, but not so much that the balls roll out. This is 32mm gauge and the balls are on a 1" PCD.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by Bodelwyddan » Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:07 pm

philipy wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:49 pm Each to his own, of course, but I would go with mild steel myself. Two reasons, 1) that if you are going to build your own track and pointwork you will need to solder up the frogs, if nothing else. 2) when did you ever see the sides of rails being shiny? I know you can paint them, as in the smaller scales, but real discolouration/corrosion is much more subtle and a lot less effort to do.
Hi Philip,
Oh 10 out of 10 for stating the obvious! (I mean that in a positive way!!) I was thinking about the 'look' of the rail and never gave it a thought that various parts will need soldering up :) Yes, mild steel is I think the way to go with that, and your comment about discolouration is useful too. It was my plan to paint the rails but would agree with your view entirely. Thank you!
Andrew wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:56 pm The whole thing sounds like a great project, I look forward to reading more...
Thanks Andrew, I must admit seeing some pictures in the online mag Railway Herald last summer about the Pickering Coach Boston Lodge has just built for the WHR 1964 Co, was really what set me off on this project. Plus a desire to try and create something that is realistic, provides a good background with realism for photos and can be detailed in lots of little ways without necessarily needing to deal with things that are a few mm long, as one would in 009! Cheers for the info on the coach build, I'll go have a read of that.
jefran wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:10 pm The underframe weight is carried by the 5 5/32" ball bearings sandwiched between a plate on the underframe with the pivot in the middle and plate on the bogie; on the brass bogies the plate is part of the bogie, but I used a convenient brass disc in this case. The plain portion of the pivot is just long enough to leave a little up and down play when the 2BA nut is tightened up; up and down also means a bit of tilt, but not so much that the balls roll out. This is 32mm gauge and the balls are on a 1" PCD.
Jefran, that is really interesting. I had thought about a bolt through the base of the coach with washer and a nut, but that solution is more elegant and removes any chance of ware and tare on the top of the bogie stretcher frame. I may be a bit slow on the uptake at times (apologies) but I am assuming that the metal base on the coach, which has the pivot pin, is the 3D printed item into which you have positioned the ball bearings? Sorry if I am missing something here, I am a little dyslexic and it confuses me at times! My fault, not yours.

EDIT: Ah I can see it is the bogie sides that are 3D printed now - is the pivot with the bearings a purchased item then or one you have created?

Thanks to everyone once more for your warm welcome and freely sharing advice, it is nice to be in a friendly environment and I hope at some point I may be able to return to the favour to people.

Richie

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by jefran » Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:37 pm

The "ball race" is 3D printed, and as it was a cold day and I didn't fancy going out to the garage and turning anything, the pivot is built up from bits. On the other stock the pivot is 1/4" mild steel with a 2 BA thread cut for about 3/16", silver soldered onto the square (ish) plate, but in this case I have cheated , and it is actually a pan-headed 2BA screw. The head is contained within a hole in the piece of ply underneath the brass plate, and the parallel portion is piece of 1/4" brass tube I found (actually it is part of an old 1/4" jack plug) cut to length to give the required amount of clearance. Once everything is tightened up the arrangement is quite rigid, but I have yet to see how it works in service, though the worst I can think of is the nut shaking undone, and some Loctite would fix that.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Bodelwyddan Valley Railway

Post by Bodelwyddan » Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:20 pm

jefran wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:37 pm The "ball race" is 3D printed, and as it was a cold day and I didn't fancy going out to the garage and turning anything, the pivot is built up from bits. On the other stock the pivot is 1/4" mild steel with a 2 BA thread cut for about 3/16", silver soldered onto the square (ish) plate, but in this case I have cheated , and it is actually a pan-headed 2BA screw. The head is contained within a hole in the piece of ply underneath the brass plate, and the parallel portion is piece of 1/4" brass tube I found (actually it is part of an old 1/4" jack plug) cut to length to give the required amount of clearance. Once everything is tightened up the arrangement is quite rigid, but I have yet to see how it works in service, though the worst I can think of is the nut shaking undone, and some Loctite would fix that.
Thanks for that explanation Jefran.
Richie

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