FR. Sentry box brake van.

[River Lin]

Hi all.
Does anyone have, or know where I can get, dimensions of the above van. I would like at add one to my scratch built FR/NWNG stock. I can find plenty of photos but would like to built it to an accurate scale if i can.
David.

[Andrew]

Sorry, no - just checked the 7mm NG Assoc drawings, and Colin Binnie's online ones... I recently emailed the FR Soc's sales person to see what they've got in the way of drawings (as per the instructions on their website), but have received no reply as yet.

Good luck with finding some!

[Peter Butler]

I can't help with prototype dimensions but have recently built a Jurassic kit of the brake van and can provide measurements of that if it helps. It looks to be a well proportioned model and can be viewed under construction on page 154 in my 'Time to build a railway.....' thread, under the Railways and layouts heading.

[River Lin]

That would be brilliant Peter thanks. I have photos from the interweb net type thing, so of I have basic overall length, width and height of the wooden structurei can print a picture using these overall measurements using Publisher and copy other measurements from this.
David.

[Peter Butler]

David, measurements of my model are done using my 16mm/ft scale rule, I hope this makes it easier for you.....

Overall length of body.... 10ft 2" (incl. sentry)
" Width of body .... 6ft 2"
Body height at sides .... 5ft 10"
Body height at centre ... 6ft 3"
Side door width ...... 2ft 6"

Measurements do not include roof thickness, buffers or wheels.

[River Lin]

Hi Peter.
That's fantastic. Thanks very much.
David.

[JMORG]

Hi Dave,

From what I can work out, not much of the Boston Lodge archive survives from that time. It's assumed the 3 vans were made at BL (along with the running gear of the carriages). The sentry boxes are also not an original feature of the vans, these were later added.
Whether the Spooner's actually made drawings of these vans is purely speculative...

[Peter Butler]

The kit construction makes this very clear with the sentry box being a separate unit, not an extension to the side panel. It is built in such a way that the original balcony step is made first and is hidden under the box seat. Also, the roof line is slightly higher than that of the main body.

[River Lin]

Hi Peter.
I have found this photo on the 'Festipedia' website which seems to confirm that your info about the end balcony is indeed correct.

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Festipedia also state the it is 13' in length, which may be correct as brake van 6 with end balcony on the same website is quoted as 12'6" and the proportions do seem similar.

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David.

[Peter Butler]

Very interesting.... I also have a kit-built model of brake van 6 (kit-maker unknown) so I can make a direct comparison for you. Too late and dark now so tomorrow it will be......

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[Peter Butler]

Kit comparison as promised......


Quite a big difference when seen this way, the brake van 6 scales at 12ft. 3" (over balcony) so pretty close to prototype.

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[Andrew]

I could be wrong, but think your kit may be one of the original IP ones Peter, which were "scaled" (ie stretched!) to suit the size of the average 16mm loco - which would make a size comparison tricky.

The ""scaled" models weren't popular, apparently, (I certainly recall them causing rifts on the 16mm e group!) so replaced with the current range, which are to scale.

Cheers,

Andrew.

[River Lin]

That's an interesting comparison Peter. It seem strange however that if Festipedia is correct and van 3 is approx 12' long and 6' high it should be twice as long as it is high. Do we think a little artistic licence is being used in producing your kit to a squarer outline than van 6. Van 6 does look more prototypical.
David.

[Peter Butler]

How glad I am my mind isn't troubled by such detail, that is for engineers to worry about. I am perfectly happy for my rolling stock, whether mm perfect or not, to run in an alien landscape which bears no resemblance to its original intended place of work.
If it was to be run on a 'model railway' with all correct surrounding infrastructure, then it might be different?

[Andrew]

How glad I am my mind isn't troubled by such detail, that is for engineers to worry about. I am perfectly happy for my rolling stock, whether mm perfect or not, to run in an alien landscape which bears no resemblance to its original intended place of work.
If it was to be run on a 'model railway' with all correct surrounding infrastructure, then it might be different?

Absolutely! I only mention it in the context of the comparison between the two vans.

I get much too bothered by such things where my own models are concerned, but it seems to make me happy...

[River Lin]

Peter and Andrew. I agree with you both. If it looks fine then it is fine. It looks like the present FR don't have dimensioned plans of the original van 3 anyway. I will show you how I get on when I start it.
David.

[River Lin]

Hi all.
Just thought I would update the group on what I have been doing during these long periods in tiers and lockdowns. At the beginning of last year I built a rake of Slaters and scratchbuilt Ffestiniog slate wagons and then a PDF Models De Winton kit that I detailed with wooden boiler cladding and lined it in red and white. I also added a radio control unit from Locoremote. A quarry hunslet kit, also from PDF Models was next but I built a different cab to represent Sextus. I have again used Locoremote for the radio control.
The original loco was bought new in 1896 and worked in the Groby Granite Quarry in Groby in Leicestershire ( 3 miles from me as i write this) for around 25 years.before being sold back to Hunslet where it was reconditioned. It had its cab removed before being sold on to the Dinorwic quarry in North Wales where it was given the new name 'Lady Madcap'. The scattered parts of this loco are now being collected together by members of the Welsh Highland Heritage Railway group in Porthmadog with a view to rebuilding. New frames have been made. I look forward to seeing it back in Groby for its 150th birthday perhaps if I last that long :-)
The following photo also shows progress so far on the rolling chassis for my Sentry Box van. Not being one to do things the easy way I am hoping to add opening doors. We shall see. Firstly i have to build the framework for the sides.
David.
Stay safe. (I have my jab booked for this coming Saturday)

[River Lin]

Hi all.
I have been working on my brake van body this week and will post a couple of photos later but i thought i would share how i solved a construction problem at the start. I am building the framework for the body from 4mm square stock but however much i would like to joint it together, I think this would be rather difficult and impractical.
Just gluing and butt jointing the pieces together would have very little strength but I wondered if I could add dowels to the joints.
After simple butt jointing i carefully drilled (1mm then 2mm) a 15mm deep hole down through the joint, and then glued and tapped the centre part of a cocktail stick down into the hole. The stick being 2mm in diam. and made from bamboo I think. I then snipped of the excess, sanded it flush and was left with what seems to be a strong joint.

IMG_20210221_112419.jpg (102.8 KiB) Viewed 6316 times

David

[Peter Butler]

Great idea David, simple, effective and strong enough to hold its shape.
I hope you are suffering no after effects from you jab.

[River Lin]

Hi Peter.
We are fine now but we were both rough on Sunday. It won't stop us having having our second though.
David