Botch Idea

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SpudUk
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Botch Idea

Post by SpudUk » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:33 am

Hello Folks,

I'm pondering something which in my head looks great, but in reality may not even work! I'm thinking of building a Swift Sixteen four wheeled coach (https://www.swiftsixteen.co.uk/Classic- ... heel-Coach) but mounting it on their WWI WD bogies to make something reminiscent of the Ashover coaches, although slightly shorter. Does that make sense, is it do-able, and would it look better then awful?
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Andrew
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Re: Botch Idea

Post by Andrew » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:05 am

It's rather a nice idea I think, and will work well if you do end up having to go for tight-ish curves. Yonks ago I did something similar with a Brandbright 4 wheel brake compo (a little shorter than the Swift Sixteen model) and Big Big Train bogies, which I was always fond of - and from a distance you couldn't really tell it was a bogie carriage at all:

Image

Go for it, I reckon - you'll end up with leftover gubbins to build a 4-wheel wagon or van too...

Cheers,

Andrew

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Re: Botch Idea

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:58 am

I like that coach Andrew.

I have been thinking about painting the front and back of my IoM coaches in a similar colour.

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Re: Botch Idea

Post by SpudUk » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:26 am

Andrew wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:05 am
It's rather a nice idea I think, and will work well if you do end up having to go for tight-ish curves. Yonks ago I did something similar with a Brandbright 4 wheel brake compo (a little shorter than the Swift Sixteen model) and Big Big Train bogies, which I was always fond of - and from a distance you couldn't really tell it was a bogie carriage at all:

Image

Go for it, I reckon - you'll end up with leftover gubbins to build a 4-wheel wagon or van too...

Cheers,

Andrew
That looks great Andrew!

My only worry with the WD bogies is that they would overhand the ends of the coach (as per Ashover) and I wouldn't want it to look weird. Only one way to find out I suppose!
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Re: Botch Idea

Post by Andrew » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:40 am

SpudUk wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:26 am
My only worry with the WD bogies is that they would overhand the ends of the coach (as per Ashover) and I wouldn't want it to look weird. Only one way to find out I suppose!
The original Ashover carriages had that bogie overhang (sounds painful...) and the Wembly carriages that ended up there:

Image


And the FR/WHR toastracks:

Image


So your carriage will be in good company! You can always perch the body on top and see how it looks, then omit the brake wheel uprights and mount the bogies more conventionally if you don't like the overhang.

Just a thought, but have you considered scratchbuilding a shortened Ashover-style body? Windows are generally the tricky bit I find, but with a shortie Ashover there wouldn't be many of them, and they're all nice and square, no tricky round corners to cut. Perfect for those winter evenings, and cheaper than a kit...

Cheers,

Andrew.

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Re: Botch Idea

Post by SpudUk » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:44 am

Andrew wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:40 am
SpudUk wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:26 am
My only worry with the WD bogies is that they would overhand the ends of the coach (as per Ashover) and I wouldn't want it to look weird. Only one way to find out I suppose!
The original Ashover carriages had that bogie overhang (sounds painful...) and the Wembly carriages that ended up there:

Image


And the FR/WHR toastracks:

Image


So your carriage will be in good company! You can always perch the body on top and see how it looks, then omit the brake wheel uprights and mount the bogies more conventionally if you don't like the overhang.

Just a thought, but have you considered scratchbuilding a shortened Ashover-style body? Windows are generally the tricky bit I find, but with a shortie Ashover there wouldn't be many of them, and they're all nice and square, no tricky round corners to cut. Perfect for those winter evenings, and cheaper than a kit...

Cheers,

Andrew.
Never seen that Wembley carriage, what an absolute beaut!!

Not sure I'm up to scratch building yet, only ever done a flat wagon in O-16.5 and that was some time ago! Really lack the ability and the confidence to give it a crack
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Re: Botch Idea

Post by Andrew » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:03 pm

The Wembley carriage is lovely, isn't it, although I realise I've got my carriages in a muddle, and it's not that sort that ended up at Ashover, they were the "never stop" railway ones... Details of the one in question are here - although do they really mean to say the carriage ended up as a family home?!

https://www.gwsr.com/planning_your_visi ... ilway.html

Do give scratchbuilding a try some time. A lot of it's about the planning I reckon - what bits will be needed, how they'll be made, and how they'll fit to the other bits. Certainly passes the time in dull work meetings...

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Re: Botch Idea

Post by Dasher » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:13 pm

I'm right in the middle of a similar project. I've built the S16 4 wheeled coach bodies (2 off) and had attached the wheel carriers to the chassis central to the marked out area. At this point the chassis had not been attached to the bodies. Fortunately for me I then tried the chassis on my track and low and behold there is no way that they will go around a Peco 38" radius let alone a 2'6" one. Moving the axle blocks inboard (so that the outer edge was butted up to the inner line of the marked out area improved things. The chassis would now negotiate the curve (even the 2'6" radius) albeit with a little (but acceptable) resistance but the overhang/coupling alignment now became a problem. I could solve the overhang issue buy adding a larger coupling buffer but all the time I felt that I was using up the box of sticking plasters. So last week I gave Rob a call and asked his advice. I should soon be receiving four bogies to equip the two chassis and bodies. I've gone for S16 standard bogies but I guess that you could go for the S16 WW1 versions - check with Rob first. You won't be disappointed with the quality of the S16 4 wheel coach castings - they are simply the best resin castings that I've seen. Rob is flexible too - so if you talk with him first he will make up the kit so as to substitute the wheels and axle blocks with the bogies saving you buying unnecessary parts.

Rob's build instructions are good. There is also a Tony Bird build on the Garden Railway Club site that is very useful.

I can't help on the placement of the bogies as I haven't got there yet but I would go cautiously if considering the bogie running outside the front of the body as the chassis is set up inside the body by about 10mm.

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Re: Botch Idea

Post by invicta280 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:51 pm

That's interesting to know. I am planning to get some Swift Sixteen coaches and was wondering if the 4 wheelers might exert more drag on tight curves. I think the shorter coaches could suit my line better, so fitting them with bogies sounds like the answer. Thanks!

Any chance of a photo of your new 'shortie' bogie coaches when they enter service?

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Re: Botch Idea

Post by Dasher » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:56 pm

invicta280 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:51 pm
That's interesting to know. I am planning to get some Swift Sixteen coaches and was wondering if the 4 wheelers might exert more drag on tight curves. I think the shorter coaches could suit my line better, so fitting them with bogies sounds like the answer. Thanks!

If you are running anything close to 38" curves (or tighter) then you will need to do the modification to run bogies. If the fixed axle blocks are mounted in the recommended site then its more than drag, it just won't go round. If you mount the axle blocks further inboard then it helps - i.e.they go round but with drag.

Any chance of a photo of your new 'shortie' bogie coaches when they enter service?

Yes sure, but like Andrew's Brandbright coach, the bogies are going to be almost unnoticeable as the sides of the coach extend down to obscure most of the wheel. I have got the bogies yet - and I can't spray the bodies further until the weather warms up!

The simple fix is to use the S16 "short" coach - but these are very short!

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Re: Botch Idea

Post by KjellAn » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:06 pm

I have bogies on my Brandbright 4-wheel coaches, and I am very pleased with them running in sharp curves. I have a 2,5 foot radius curve on my Pine Hill Railway.

Here is a pic of my first built coach. The bogies are the simple plate frame from Brandbright.

Image
Kjell Anderdal :)

Livesteam 16mm on my line - the Pine Hill Railway (PHRy)

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Re: Botch Idea

Post by SpudUk » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:18 am

I've spoken to Rob, though he thinks its possible there'd need to be some significant alterations to the coach chassis in order to get the WD bogie overhang (as they'd sit inside the body otherwise).

Whilst researching I stumbled upon Timpdon models, specifically these: http://www.timpdon.co.uk/timpdon/tmRcoaches.htm. Anyone seen them before?
Last edited by SpudUk on Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Botch Idea

Post by BorisSpencer » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:26 pm

I've not seen the ToastRacks but I'm currently building a rake of their 3 compartment coaches (4 wheelers). Nicely produced kits, with fairly minimal instructions requiring a certain amount of common sense.

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Re: Botch Idea

Post by Andrew » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:55 pm

SpudUk wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:18 am
Whilst researching I stumbled upon Timpdon models, specifically these: http://www.timpdon.co.uk/timpdon/tmRcoaches.htm. Anyone seen them before?
Haven't seen any in the flesh, but they do look impressive on the website - reasonable price too. I'd be tempted if I hadn't already got a half-finished Hudson toast rack I started scratch-building about 10 years ago. I really must finish it some time...

Like the carriage by the way KjellAn, very nice...

Andrew.

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Re: Botch Idea

Post by Dasher » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:45 pm

My bogies arrive last week and I've built them up today. Locating them on the standard 4 wheel chassis in the same place as is marked for the original wheel carrier will work well. I've only offered it up to check and it will be a while before I complete the job as I still need to paint the coach sides before fixing the floor/chassis in place. It is worth noting that the standard axle block and wheel set give a ride height approximately 2mm higher than the ride height sits with bogies. The floor level is determined by the lugs on the steps and so is in effect fixed. I shall probably build up the underside of the chassis/floor with a 2mm plasticard spacer before drilling and locating the bogie.

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