W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

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Paul_A_C
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W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by Paul_A_C » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:08 am

My first Topic on the forum! I thought I would share my experiences about building The Lineside Hut kit for the W&LLR Brake van.
Here's the prototype at Cryfronydd 02.09.2017:
IMGP2702 - Copy.jpg
The kit arrived in a parcel well protected in bubble-wrap. In addition to the body kit, I purchased the chassis kit and a pair of centre buffers.
IMG_0235.jpg
Some of the outside frame parts are very fragile and one of the end frames had a piece broken off, which was repaired. The internal sides have the planking made by cutting completely through the ply with the laser, with just 2mm or so at the end of each cut retained to keep the part together. These are again very fragile and I managed to break both of the long side parts. In truth, the laser cutting on these two parts were excessive compared to the ends and doors. There were cuts of about 0.75mm width.
IMG_0238.jpg
To improve the strength I ran neat PVA down each cut with a fine brush and the wiped the excess off the surface. This filled the gap and had the advantage that when painted, the paint would not leak through from one side to the other. I wish to paint the interior light cream and the exterior light grey. In order to keep the side flat whilst the PVA dried, I placed a weight on it, whilst sat on plate glass.
IMG_0244.jpg
The instructions suggest constructing the external framing first. Care must be taken as the ends in particular are very fragile.
IMG_0239.jpg
The floor was stained a dark oak colour and when dry, was glued to the external frame work. This improves the strength somewhat, but care is required when handling. The inside surface of the ends was painted light cream and glued to the assembly.
IMG_0247.jpg
When all was dry, I tried a trial fit of the windows to the ends with the outer parts which keep them in place. The windows as supplied are thicker than the ply that they sit into and the outer parts would not sit flush with the ends. I dashed an e-mail off to Lineside Hut asking for help. A reply was received within the hour offering a solution. Additional ends are going to be cut from 0.8mm material and posted to me. These will be attached to the existing end framework to thicken it. This is rather good customer service I think.

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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Linside Hut kit)

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:22 am

Hi Paul and welcome.

I have not made a kit for years but after Peter Butler mentioned he bought one of Lineside Hut's kits I had a look and there stuff looked good on their website although I am disappointed now that you have had issues as these kits are not cheap and are not supplied with axle boxes, wheels or couplings.

Please continue to post progress!

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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by Paul_A_C » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:46 am

Simon at Lineside Hut explained that the problem with the Windows was because of material tolerances. The windows were at the top limit and the ply at the lower limit. His prompt reply and solution is good.
The planking issue is a manufacturing problem. Either the laser was set too high or the ply cuts more easily than ‘normal’. I think that in using a single pass of the laser to create planking on both sides is probably done to reduce costs. To part cut from both sides would increase laser cutting time and costs.
I’ve been building kits in 7mm and 16mm scales for 30 years and and only a minority’s have been built with no problems; either design, manufacturing or packing. I’ll reserve my final judgement on value for money until the project is complete.

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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by Paul_A_C » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:13 pm

Before I report on further progress, some incidental notes.
For reference, I am using:
  • The Welshpool & Llanfair Light Railway. Guy Williams. Wild Swan.
  • Welshpool and Llanfair Light Railway. The original service years - 1903 to 56 - 16mm scale drawings. Bernard Rockett Theodore Press.
I bought the plans book recently and am not too sure about its accuracy. The modified brake van drawing does not look correct, the external framing appears incorrectly proportioned. I think assumption made is the door is the same width as each frame panel. Photos show this not to be the case and the kit looks accurate against photos :thumbup: .

I don't always stick the order recommended in instructions either. One primary consideration when reading through them for the first time is how will it be painted and at what point. For this kit, I will paint certain items as I build it and not at the end. For example, the interior of the sides and ends will be painted before I glue them in place. This ensures that there is no over painting of the stained and weathered floor. For paint, I've been prudent and bought two 125ml sample tins of matt pale cream and pale grey emulsion from Wilko! That should see me through for all the wagons I am planning to build. Elsewhere I've varied the order; the headstocks were drilled for the couplings and fitted immediately after the floor was fitted and the glue had set. This protects the fragile lower frame sections of the ends.

The Chassis Kit
I purchased the chassis kit a) to see what it was like and b) because it was about the same price as buying separate wheels and axle guards. To quote the instructions: The chassis kit contains four long sole bars and four short spacers, these require gluing together on a flat surface to double their thickness. Once dry they need to be made up into an "H" like shape....."

Well, this makes up a solebar that is 6mm thick, but the headstock is 12mm deep. Hmmm..... I think the saving grace here is that the underpinnings will mostly be hidden by the full length foot boards.
IMG_0250.jpg
IMG_0251.jpg
IMG_0252.jpg
The photos above convey what's going on. The intention is to glue the axle guards into the rear recess of the solebars. I'm not over struck with this as it relies on a single glue face for integrity. Garden railways can be a harsh running environment and I subscribe to the 'belt-and-braces' school of engineering. So I made up pockets for the top of the axleguards to fit in.
IMG_0253.jpg
When the glue had set, a temporary trial was made on a spare piece of (shock horror) 7mm scale 32mm gauge track.
IMG_0256.jpg
The other brake van is scratchbuilt and is loosely based on a photo of a Ballymena and Larne example.

In conclusion, I don't think I would buy a chassis kit again, preferring to make one up from strip wood and sourcing my own components. However, if one is not confident at making ones own chassis, it does provide a kit to use.

I intend to add detail to the kit as a go along and here is the first piece of frippery. The glazing beading is represented by light laser cuts into the ply. I am fitting 20 thou square microstrip around the windows. A tad under size, but photos show these to be small on the prototype. I just happen to have a packet of the stuff.
IMG_0255.jpg

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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:24 pm

Thanks for the progress report Paul.

You have confirmed that the chassis kit would not be required if I were to purchase one of these.

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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by Peter Butler » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:39 pm

Watching with interest Paul and learning from your experience! My current (first time wooden kit) build is Lineside Hut's four compartment carriage, which I am painting before assembly. What adhesive should I use to attach painted wood sections to each other both on flat and corner joins?
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by Paul_A_C » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:37 pm

Peter Butler wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:39 pm
Watching with interest Paul and learning from your experience! My current (first time wooden kit) build is Lineside Hut's four compartment carriage, which I am painting before assembly. What adhesive should I use to attach painted wood sections to each other both on flat and corner joins?
Peter, I’m being very careful and avoiding painting any surfaces that will be used for gluing! Easier said than done, particularly on a panelled coach. That said, if it’s to glue the beading over the panelling, possibility PVA as it won’t be structural. What paint are you using?

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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by Peter Butler » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:14 pm

I prefer acrylic grey primer and car acrylic top coat. I am applying several coats, rubbing down between layers, as I try to disguise the wood-grain effect, particularly where the grain runs in the wrong direction...... why do manufacturers do that?????
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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by Paul_A_C » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:47 am

I can’t really help you you with recommending a glue for that. I’m painting by hand for the brake van as good stock does not really require a high quality finish. I’m not after the Accucraft RTR finish, which to me doesn’t look right for goods stock. Somewhere on the ‘net I saw somebody build a Brandbright panelled coach, which had a two colour livery. It may have been on the Garden Railway Club site. There may be ideas there.

Edit to add it is on the Green Railway Club site. You have to search down the left hand topic list a fair way to Wagons and Carriages.

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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by Andrew » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:45 am

Looking really good so far - and I love the scratchbuilt brake in the picture too. Admirable attention to detail around the windows - it's that sort of thing that turns a quick build into a very lengthy one!

I use Liberon sanding sealer for passenger carriages, as recommended by Neil Ramsey, who probably makes the best carriages I've seen. I quite like a little grain on wagons, but I've taken to using individual planks (well, veneers of planks over a solid shell...) so that the grain doesn't go right across the lot.

Looking forward to seeing more progress - thanks for sharing the build so far...

Andrew.

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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by GTB » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:21 pm

Peter Butler wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:14 pm
I prefer acrylic grey primer and car acrylic top coat. I am applying several coats, rubbing down between layers, as I try to disguise the wood-grain effect, particularly where the grain runs in the wrong direction......
To get a smooth surface on wood I use a locally available sanding sealer, equivalent I'd guess to what Andrew uses. Left to dry overnight, it dries hard enough to sand and recoat the next day. I find find two coats, rubbing down between each coat gives a smooth finish with the type of woods and ply I use for building rolling stock.

I've got a copy of the old VR procedure for painting wooden pass cars, it involved about seven coats of primer and paint, with much sanding and liberal use of putty and filler. Which is why I build pass car models using polystyrene sheet.

I glue wooden bodies together with aliphatic PVA (the yellow stuff) and then seal the wood surfaces, as yellow glue is designed to soak into the wood to form the bond and it doesn't work very well on non-porous surfaces. I have a selection of little sanding blocks made by sticking sandpaper to a block of polystyrene with double sided tape, which allows the sanding sealer to be sanded right into corners etc. They can be made any shape you like, even rounded for getting into curved corners.

To glue wooden parts that are already sealed/primed/painted, I'd probably use one of the new generation cyanoacrylates like the one made by Gorilla, which aren't as brittle as the cheap type of superglue. That might be a bit problematic though with very thin UK style carriage mouldings, as you don't get long to line things up.

As an alternative for glueing decorative moulding, I'd probably use a rubber based contact cement. Run a thin bead along along the back of the moulding and place the moulding on to the side straight away. That way you get some working time and it will still stick OK once it dries. The chances of getting things in the right place using the normal contact cement procedure are probably even lower than using cyanoacrylate.

Given the grain I see on the sheets of ply available locally, it probably wouldn't make much difference which way parts were cut from the sheet. Even the AA grade birch ply that I get from the aero model shop has grain that looks like the veneers came from a birch burl....... It was a major job scribing straight lines for planking on the last wooden wagon I built.

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by Paul_A_C » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:08 pm

The additional 0.8mm end frets arrived today. A quick dry run showed they will solve the problem. Now glued on and will try again when all dried :thumbup:. A quick response from Lineside Hut to solve this problem. Photos of progress to follow, but now off to move 3 ponies who trashed an electric fence this morning and ripped a wire out the energiser :evil:.

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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by Paul_A_C » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:05 pm

I have now glued the ends and sides into the body framework.
IMG_0257.jpg
The odd painted panel in the bottom left had corner is because I used the 16mm association stencil to letter up the van.
IMG_0258.jpg
Next, I made up the door runners. I pondered over the wording of the instructions. This extract from the instructions shows in Figure 2 how the runners fit together. Part B is handed and Part A is shorter than B & C. 'A' fits under the floor and behind the headstock, hence the shorter length. For 'B', the 'thicker' end, shown on the right hand side in Figure 2 goes at the end AWAY from the headstock.
IMG_0268 - Copy.jpg
This photo from underneath shows how it all fits.
IMGP3082.jpg
A top view.
IMGP3081.jpg
I then added the two corner jambs at this point, rather than later as per the instructions. Note that the kit provides 4 of these jambs. Two are intended to go at the non veranda end. The prototype is not fitted with these, so I omitted them. If you fit them, you will not be able to fit and corner ironwork that you make to detail the kit.

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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by Paul_A_C » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:18 pm

Further progress.
I have made up the doors as per the instructions. The lower door guide 'H' was stained, but in reality will not be seen. The beading for the windows on the end overlays has been completed and this has been spray undercoated using a Halfords Primer rattle can.
IMG_0260.jpg
These goodies arrived from Trenarren Models last week (very prompt service!)
They are:
  • Pot Bellied Stove
  • Broom
  • Drivers kit
IMG_0261.jpg
They are all destined to be internal detail, with the exception of the shovel which after modification has become part of a loco fire iron set. The stove has been glued to a suitable piece of 30 thou plastikard to represent a slate base.
Finally a photo of the Pickering GA of the original build. I am going make up and add the two lockers from scratch. The short one by the door will be moved to the other side of the van as photos of the vans in the condition that the kit represents shows the stove to have moved there!
IMG_0259 - Copy.jpg
The doors can be made to work, which I will do. However I expect the van will run with them always open so that one can peer in and see the details.

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Re: W&LLR Brake Van (Lineside Hut kit)

Post by Paul_A_C » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:52 am

Some more progress. I have been working on the internal detail and am in the process of making the lockers/seats. Because all of my woodworking tools are in storage, I made the basic shape for the lockers from plastic card. The 'boxes' are well braced internally to prevent warping. Hole were drilled in the base pieces to let any trapped solvent evaporate.
IMG_0275.jpg
I scribed up some 0.8mm ply to represent the planking and glued this to the box, using basic clear glue which works for both wood and plastic card.
IMG_0276.jpg
Additionally, I strengthen the sides over the door openings. I felt this could be a potential weak point. Two lengths of 'coffee stirrers' trimmed to length did the business, taking care not to obstruct the cut outs for the transverse roof supports.
IMG_0277.jpg

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