Battery help

A place for discussing battery-electric locomotives, whether they're diesel, steam or even electric outline
Post Reply
georgesheppard
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:51 pm

Battery help

Post by georgesheppard » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:20 pm

I'm currently in the process of building my first battery loco. The receiver I bought from Yatton models (RXY3v1) is based on DelTang modules and the specification lists input voltage of 4V to 16V. This has left me somewhat baffled about what batteries to source.

Having scrolled through many posts it looks like there are several options, I saw a post from another member with the same loco & receiver who used a 6V SLA battery. NiMH or Li-Ion also seem to be a possibility with the latter having more sophisticated charging requirements? I have no real fixed requirements in terms of running the loco, I'd like to add lights & sound in addition to the two motors supplied with the kit. It will be pulling smallish rakes of passenger wagons (for now!).

Any help appreciated! I have a basic understanding of electronics (GCSE level..) but I've been left a little lost at the options available.
Last edited by georgesheppard on Sat May 01, 2021 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Battery help

Post by philipy » Sat May 01, 2021 7:13 am

It is a bit of a minefield George. Rik has done a pretty comprehensive roundup of most of the basic stuff in one of his Blogs. I suggest it's a good starting point.
https://riksrailway.blogspot.com/search?q=batteries
Philip

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: Battery help

Post by ge_rik » Sat May 01, 2021 7:57 am

philipy wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:13 am It is a bit of a minefield George. Rik has done a pretty comprehensive roundup of most of the basic stuff in one of his Blogs. I suggest it's a good starting point.
https://riksrailway.blogspot.com/search?q=batteries
As Philip suggests, take a look at the above link in combination with this
https://riksrailway.blogspot.com/2013/1 ... r-and.html

If you then need further advice or clarification then ask away. There's plenty of experience and expertise on here other than mine.

Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

georgesheppard
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Battery help

Post by georgesheppard » Sat May 01, 2021 8:31 am

Brilliant, thanks both!

User avatar
Jimmyb
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 492
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:43 pm
Location: Weston-super-Mare

Re: Battery help

Post by Jimmyb » Sat May 01, 2021 8:45 am

georgesheppard wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:20 pm I'm currently in the process of building my first battery loco. The receiver I bought from Yatton models (RXY3v1) is based on DelTang modules and the specification lists input voltage of 4V to 16V. This has left me somewhat baffled about what batteries to source.

Having scrolled through many posts it looks like there are several options, I saw a post from another member with the same loco & receiver who used a 6V SLA battery. NiMH or Li-Ion also seem to be a possibility with the latter having more sophisticated charging requirements? I have no real fixed requirements in terms of running the loco, I'd like to add lights & sound in addition to the two motors supplied with the kit. It will be pulling smallish rakes of passenger wagons (for now!).

Any help appreciated! I have a basic understanding of electronics (GCSE level..) but I've been left a little lost at the options available.
I think the first thing is what size (volts) motor do you have, I run a lot of my LGB (24 volt) locos on a LiPo 3S 11.1 volts, and that is sufficient in most cases. If you motor is 12 volts 6 volts could be sufficient, depending on the weight of the loco and the load to pull. I personally like LiPo and Li-Ion batteries because of the size to output ratio. 2 Li-Ion batteries slightly larger than AAs will give 7.2 volts whereas you would need 6 NiMH batteries, so is room is at a premium Lithium, but there are hazards and they can be dangerous, but not if handled correctly.

Phil.P
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 430
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:28 pm
Location: Staffs. UK

Re: Battery help

Post by Phil.P » Sat May 01, 2021 12:31 pm

If you want sound, and are considering a MyLocoSound card:
Then I would suggest a minimum of either 8 NiMH, or a '3S' Lithium-based battery.. - Unless the loco is a big square empty box, I would not recommend SLA.

If you decide on NiMH batteries, then for the 'how-many' calculation, use a value of 1.5V per cell.

You don't state the make/model, of loco? - Or if it uses (say) a LGB block..

Phil.P

georgesheppard
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Battery help

Post by georgesheppard » Sun May 02, 2021 7:44 pm

Phil.P wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 12:31 pm If you want sound, and are considering a MyLocoSound card:
Then I would suggest a minimum of either 8 NiMH, or a '3S' Lithium-based battery.. - Unless the loco is a big square empty box, I would not recommend SLA.

If you decide on NiMH batteries, then for the 'how-many' calculation, use a value of 1.5V per cell.

You don't state the make/model, of loco? - Or if it uses (say) a LGB block..

Phil.P
It's a kit build loco supplied by Yatton Models. I can't find any specification on the supplied motors, I'll need to email and ask!

I've spent some time going through Rik's blog posts which have been really helpful! I've decided on li-ion batteries but I'm now confused at all the options that presents! It seems I might need to consider balance charging, but the pre-made packs I've seen don't seem to have enough wires to support that? Just red/black.

In terms of power requirements, I'd like to include:

2x motors
8 LEDs - 4 x forward, 4x reverse, so only 4 on at a time. There is scope for another 2 x LEDS in each direction, but not sure if that will be overkill.
Soundboard

Screenshot 2021-05-02 at 19.22.08.png
Screenshot 2021-05-02 at 19.22.08.png (661.38 KiB) Viewed 6909 times

I have a Yatton Models receiver, which provides 3V 20 mA pins for the forward / reverse LEDs and can accept input voltage for 4-18V. I was thinking maybe this pack from RS? https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/recharge ... ks/1449414

IMG_1151.jpg
IMG_1151.jpg (2.07 MiB) Viewed 6909 times

To save myself a little effort soldering I thought about ordering the Basic loco wiring loom from rctrains.co.uk. As for sound, MyLocoSound looks good but I've not had chance to do much research as of yet!

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: Battery help

Post by ge_rik » Sun May 02, 2021 8:21 pm

That battery pack looks like good value, George. It works out at less than £8 a cell which isn't bad and you don't have the problem of having to wire it up yourself. Also, if anything does go wrong you have the RS guarantee. It also includes battery protection, so something else you don't need to worry about.

Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

georgesheppard
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Battery help

Post by georgesheppard » Sun May 02, 2021 8:57 pm

Rik is balance charging something I’d need to consider with this pack? Still a bit confused on that front.

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: Battery help

Post by ge_rik » Mon May 03, 2021 6:58 am

It doesn't look like it. The protection device they've included in the pack probably includes circuitry to monitor the balance charging of the cells.

Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Battery help

Post by philipy » Mon May 03, 2021 7:22 am

georgesheppard wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:57 pm Rik is balance charging something I’d need to consider with this pack? Still a bit confused on that front.
I think Rik is right. Normally with Li-ion battery packs, you would have a balance charging lead which has 1 more wire than the number of cells in series. ie. 1 to negative and one more to each of the cell-to-cell junctions - so for 2 cells in series you have 3 leads, for three in series you have 4 leads and so on. This allows the balance charger to monitor the charge to each individual cell and balance the charge so they all come out equal.
This RS battery pack only has two leads for 6 cells, so as Rik says presumably there must be internal circuitry to do the balancing, which is handy because, again presumably, it means that you can use any charger of suitable capacity without needing a dedicated balance charger.
Philip

georgesheppard
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Battery help

Post by georgesheppard » Mon May 03, 2021 7:52 am

Thanks both!

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Battery help

Post by FWLR » Mon May 03, 2021 8:38 am

I don't know if this will help. I have one of these B6 chargers that Rik told me about. I find them excellent, because you can have various types of batteries and I use mine a lot.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yosoo-Health-G ... 31&sr=8-26

It might not be that name I have, but they are all pretty much the same.....

User avatar
Jimmyb
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 492
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:43 pm
Location: Weston-super-Mare

Re: Battery help

Post by Jimmyb » Mon May 03, 2021 8:50 am

philipy wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 7:22 am
I think Rik is right. Normally with Li-ion battery packs, you would have a balance charging lead which has 1 more wire than the number of cells in series. ie. 1 to negative and one more to each of the cell-to-cell junctions - so for 2 cells in series you have 3 leads, for three in series you have 4 leads and so on. This allows the balance charger to monitor the charge to each individual cell and balance the charge so they all come out equal.
This RS battery pack only has two leads for 6 cells, so as Rik says presumably there must be internal circuitry to do the balancing, which is handy because, again presumably, it means that you can use any charger of suitable capacity without needing a dedicated balance charger.
Although I agree about the internal balancer, don't totally agree with "use any charger of suitable capacity", I think that should be "use any suitable lithium charger of suitable capacity"
FWLR wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:38 am I don't know if this will help. I have one of these B6 chargers that Rik told me about. I find them excellent, because you can have various types of batteries and I use mine a lot.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yosoo-Health-G ... 31&sr=8-26

It might not be that name I have, but they are all pretty much the same.....
This looks like a good choice.

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: Battery help

Post by ge_rik » Mon May 03, 2021 11:36 am

I echo what Jim says. Even if the pack does contain circuitry for balance charging as we suspect, it's essential a dedicated lithium charger is used. I can thoroughly recommend the iMax B6, but there are other less complicated chargers out there.

Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Battery help

Post by philipy » Mon May 03, 2021 2:17 pm

Jimmyb wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:50 am
Although I agree about the internal balancer, don't totally agree with "use any charger of suitable capacity", I think that should be "use any suitable lithium charger of suitable capacity"
Ok hands up, I was sloppy with my wording! I kind of assumed that would be obvious but, I know, "never assume"! :oops: :imsorry
Philip

georgesheppard
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Battery help

Post by georgesheppard » Mon May 03, 2021 2:48 pm

I've got an iMax B6 on order :thumbright:

User avatar
-steves-
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2412
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: Cambridge & Peterborough

Re: Battery help

Post by -steves- » Mon May 03, 2021 5:38 pm

georgesheppard wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:48 pm I've got an iMax B6 on order :thumbright:
Good all round charger that, I used them a lot some years ago :thumbup:
The buck stops here .......

Ditton Meadow Light Railway (DMLR)
Member of Peterborough and District Association
http://peterborough.16mm.org.uk/

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests