TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

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TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by GTB » Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:02 pm

The name of the new loco comes from the Mihirung, which were a group of Australian giant flightless birds and the last of them disappeared along with the other local megafauna about 30,000 years ago. The name is of aboriginal origin, as the last ones were still around when the first humans arrived. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dromornithidae

The Mihirung were once thought to be related to waterfowl, which is why one is nicknamed the demon duck, but they are now thought to be related to landfowl. The largest one was 3m tall and 500kg in weight and is named Stirton's thunderbird. That's a very big chook....... :shock:


The model had been in the planning stage for a long time, as I wanted an emergency loco for towing in steam locos and their train from inconvenient parts of the track. There were three holdups, one was working out a suitable prototype, next was the transmission and the last was working up enough enthusiasm for a diesel with a long build time.

In the event, this project started as we came out of the first lockdown and continued, and continued, and continued while we were in the second lockdown.

It should perhaps be pointed out that I'm a card carrying Luddite and no CADs or 3Ds were harmed in the building of this model............ 8)

The first part of the project was to build a powered bogie, as there's not much point in continuing if this bit didn't work. The design did work and the basic mechanicals are shown in the next two photos. The motor is a Pololu with a fully enclosed gearbox and the final drive gears are standard 0.8 Mod acetal bevel and pinion gears. Much of the design delay was looking for a way to couple the two axles together. Suitable small chain was difficult to find and expensive when found.

The eventual design was based loosely on the Mk1 power bogie used by Tri-ang back in the mid '50s. The bogie design only worked because the gauge is 45mm and the prototype bogie had a long wheelbase. The clearances are tight, so it would require major changes to be usable on 32mm gauge. The motors had been in stock for several years for another project and when I dug them out it turned out that I had ordered too high a gear ratio, so the pinions driving the layshaft have a ratio of 1.5:1 to increase scale speed to a reasonable level.

Walkers 3.jpg
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Once one bogie was assembled and bench tested, it was a quick job to make up the second one. They were fitted to a temporary plywood chassis, with a battery pack and a couple of switches to confirm the speed calculations and ensure they would run on the layout without problems. The test lashup is shown in the next photo. during a test run. Using eight elderly NiMH cells gave a max running speed of 20 scale mph, which is what the bogies were designed to do.

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So, now that the mechanical design is tested and working it is on to the chassis. The design is simple enough, steel plate for most of it, with brass angle for the side sills and assembled with rivets instead of soldering. I'd have preferred an all steel chassis, but couldn't find a source of 1/2" x 1/16" bright steel angle locally. The next photo shows the completed chassis testing clearances out on the track on a cold wintry day.

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The next job was installing the electrickery. The loco was intended to be r/c control from the start and the battery, receiver, ESC, and the rest were built into a self contained module that is bolted to the chassis. The next photo shows the working bits out on their first test run on the track.

Walkers 9.jpg
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At this point in time, I was about a month into the build, it was the middle of winter and Victoria was shut down at level 4. My sheetmetal skills aren't really up to building the body of a diesel in brass and anyway r/c works better in a plastic body. I had a good supply of polystyrene sheet, so that was the path followed for building the body work on the model.

The first issue was that the chosen prototype had a very liberal supply of louvres scattered over most of the body access doors, so that was the starting point for body construction. The next photo is a composite and shows the first attempt at louvres on the left, which didn't work and the second method on the right that did.....

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The first method is one I used in the distant past in HO. A sharp chisel is pushed into the polystyrene sheet to raise a louvre, then step and repeat. This was going to require a jig of some sort to line up the louvres and ensure even spacing. Even with all that, the edges can still be ragged and with something like 500+ individual louvres to make, this wasn't a very good idea.

The second method I've also used before in HO and involves insetting a louvred panel into each door panel. Luckily Evergreen make a suitable sized weatherboard sheet and I had some in stock, so this was the path forward. The photo is a test piece and you can just see the joints where the door has been assembled from various size strips, in much the same way as a traditional wooden louvre door is made.

The next photo shows the body section assembled, which is the short hood in front of the cab. Tedious, but the construction went well. The body is heavily constructed as a box laminated up from 2mm plastic and is 4mm thick in most places. This gives enough thickness for the corners to be easily rounded without reducing the strength of the assembly.

Walkers 12.jpg
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The bodywork of the prototype was made in sections, presumably for ease of maintenance and I followed the same practice, so the next photo shows the cab. The windows had to simulate the rubber mountings of the prototype, so were made to slightly overlap the window opening to form a recess, so the glazing could be fitted for the correct appearance. The piece of steel in the front right of the photo is the tool I made for rounding off the corners of the polystyrene bodywork. Two sizes of quarter circles were milled in the corners and the tool is used like a cabinet scraper to round off the corners of the bodywork.

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The next part was the the hood over the transmission. The first photo shows this ready for the battery boxes to be fitted and the second shows one of the battery boxes. Not sure what the fittings on top of the hood are, some sort of vent as far as I can tell, as the exhausts were further back on the engine cover.

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The next section was the motor cover and this is shown in the photo below. The raised section on the prototype engine cover was a sliding panel used for access to the top of the motor and this was made removable on the model for access to the charging socket and switches. The exhausts on the prototype were flush with the top of the hood when first built and can be seen in the photo. The other items are the scraper and one of the little sanding blocks used for shaping the bodywork. The sander is just two pieces of polystyrene scraps glued together and a piece of abrasive paper fixed down with double sided tape. When the abrasive wears out it can be easily replaced.

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The last body section was the cooling group at the rear and this is shown in the photo below. I've been accumulating bits for this model for a while and the grills are an example of this. At one time K&S sold a range of etched mesh sheets and I bought some about the time they started to disappear from the shops. They are no longer available, but I had enough to do the job. The radiator cores are simulated with panels of corrugated polystyrene sheet and the cooling fan was fabricated from brass sheet and turnings.

Walkers 23.jpg
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The cab windows on the prototype were large and some sort of cab interior was called for. I couldn't find a decent photo and in the lockdown the preserved ones were out of reach, so something typical based on a later loco from the same builder was knocked up out of scraps to fill the space. It is fitted separately to the underframe so that the interior can be accessed if necessary and the photo below shows it installed in the cab.

Walkers 25.jpg
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Finally......... The body parts were bolted down and the handrails fabricated and fitted. The next photo shows the more or less complete model sitting on the track during another test run in a rare burst of late afternoon sun in the depths of a Melbourne winter.

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At this point a problem arose when the loco was first tested under load. The model has a very long overhang at each end and this plus the coupler mounting was causing derailments on parts of the wye which has the sharpest curves on the track.

Back to the drawing board....... :roll: The bogie pivots were moved closer to the headstocks (the bogie stayed in the same place, just the pivot was moved off centre) and the couplers were recessed back into the headstock. The next photo shows the first successful test run with a full train some weeks later after the modifications. Things were looking up and the sun was out as well.

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The model is fitted with working headlights and marker lights powered by the ESC. The next photo shows the wiring arrangement inside the front hood. The resistors for the LEDs are fitted to a small pc board so that only two wires need to be run into the front and rear hoods instead of eight. The plug on the input wires is so the body can be easily dismantled for service as needed, without resort to a soldering iron. There are other plugs in the wiring, including the bogies for the same reason.

This model fought hard all the way and there was a lot of light leakage from the LEDs, which showed through the bodywork when in the dark. This was finally cured by fitting the LED in a brass tube to stop light passing through into the bodywork and using a thick coat of silver paint to stop light leaking from the back of the LEDs lighting up places in the body not intended to be lit. I've found silver paint better than black paint at blocking light, but either way takes a lot of paint to be light tight.

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The weather was still too bad for painting at the time so I got on with other things until I finally ran out of excuses and started the long fight to paint the model.

The last photos show the more or less finished model sitting for its family portrait, and yes I still hate modern paints.......

The livery is based on the first colour scheme used on the Clyde-GM G8 and G12 diesels that ran on the BHP owned Iron Knob Tramway from the Whyalla steelworks to the iron ore mines in the Middleback Range in South Australia. It's a variation of the common 'bow wave' colour scheme used on '50s EMD diesels.

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Electronics and Performance

The r/c installation was simple, as the model has plenty of space under the long hood. The r/c parts all came from Tony Walsham at RCS here in Oz and come with the usual high standard of service and backup from Tony.

Basically I just plugged all the electronics in and it worked first time without any issues. The transmitter is a Deltang based RCS TX-1 now a few years old, the receiver is an RCS RX107-EM and the ESC is an RCS Omega-10, which is a 100 Watt low off ESC. As usual with RCS gear, it all works out of the box, if you follow the instructions. With the plastic body radio reception is at least as far as I can get from the loco and stay on my own property, so range is at least 30m when tested.

The model is fitted with two Pololu #3228 25mm gear motors with a 34:1 gear ratio, one in each bogie. As mentioned above, this was too high a reduction for a large slow revving motor and the layshaft had to be geared up 1.5:1 to give an overall drive ratio of about 23:1 and bringing the scale speed up to reasonable levels. The acetal gears are 0.8 Mod and fairly meaty, so should be strong enough for the trains the loco will be running. They also run quietly if properly meshed.

This motor and gear combination has plenty of torque and even though the loco weighs just over 4kg, there is enough torque to slip the wheels when driven up against the buffers. Drawbar pull is 1kg, so it will pull the Garratt and ten bogie wagons back from the far corner of the track without noticing the load.

I've had no problem with MFA-Como gear motors in other models, but I'm impressed with these Polulo gear motors. They use less current and with a fully enclosed metal gearbox are also much quieter when running. Since the photos were taken, the final drive gears have been shielded to reduce dirt ingress, although with my track being raised off the ground dirt isn't as much of a problem as it is on a ground level track.


TVT Story

There isn't one really. If the TVT had really existed it would have closed in the '50s without dieselisation, same as the VR narrow gauge lines.

The model is based on the 3'6" gauge EMU Bay Railway 10 class diesel hydraulics built in the early '60s by Walkers Engineering of Maryborough in Queensland.

http://www.railtasmania.com/loco/loco.php?id=10

There are theories that they were based on a North British built diesel hydraulic design built in the '50s for India. Perhaps so, as there is a passing resemblance to the Indian Railways metre gauge YDM-1 class. They were more reliable than any North British built diesel though, from what I've read.

All four 10 class are now withdrawn, but they survive in preservation, with one in Tasmania, two in NSW and one modified example on the Walhalla Goldfields Railway in Victoria, which is built on the trackbed of the old VR narrow gauge line to Walhalla.

Walkers went on to develop the 10 class design as a shunting loco and sold many locos to some of the state railway systems in Aust. Most are now withdrawn, but many were rebuilt and live on as 2' gauge diesels on cane tramways and a few are scattered around on preserved railways. Preserved examples include two of the QR DH class variant which now run in VR colours at Puffing Billy in Victoria.

If PuffRail can run a Walkers diesel I guess I can as well, but I did draw the line at VR blue and gold paint. The original EBR livery was two tone blue, which were the school colours of my high school, so that was a non-starter as well........ 8)

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by Peter Butler » Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:04 pm

Beautiful work Graeme, incredible detail superbly carried out. Both metal and plastic engineering at its best. Nothing wrong with the paint job either, despite your concerns.
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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by Tropic Blunder » Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:18 pm

As soon as I saw the first photo of the power bogie I knew exactly what you were building. Absolutely incredible job on every aspect of this build, you've absolutely nailed the stocky look of the prototype.

Couple of questions that'll help me with building my G8's. How did you get the wings on the noses so perfect? did you make a mask of some variety? what colour did you use for the red and where do you get your decals made?

Incredible model. I'm a massive an of Walkers locos and its always exciting to see another model of one especially the 10 class.
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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by BertieB » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:30 pm

It’s beautifully crisp and precise. Lovely

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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by ge_rik » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:30 pm

Wow! That is a beauty - both mechanically and aesthetically.

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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by LNR » Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:40 pm

Are you going to bring that with you today!
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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by gregh » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:21 am

A very nicely done build description of a beaut model.
Hooray for 'no 3D' just some metal, plastic and maybe some wood? A man after my own heart.
I am pleased to see that you test out your motor/gearbox/electronics in a mock-up to get the speed correct. (always my step 1 also)

I am surprised that you had problems on sharper curves. The overhang doesn't look all that long. Was it clearance of the bogie under the frame or is the model too wide? (sorry if you explained it in the text and I missed it.)
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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by ge_rik » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:30 am

Just read the description in full detail. A masterclass in scratchbuilding. I really enjoyed reading about the methodical way you solved each of the constructional issues as they arose. Interesting to hear about the difference between the polulu and mfa gearbox motors and the properties of the bevel gears.

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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by GTB » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:17 pm

Tropic Blunder wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:18 pm As soon as I saw the first photo of the power bogie I knew exactly what you were building. Absolutely incredible job on every aspect of this build, you've absolutely nailed the stocky look of the prototype.
I wondered how long it would take you...... ;)

Mine is a bit stockier than the prototype as I sat it lower on the bogies to reduce the overall height to match my rolling stock.
Tropic Blunder wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:18 pm Couple of questions that'll help me with building my G8's. How did you get the wings on the noses so perfect? did you make a mask of some variety? what colour did you use for the red and where do you get your decals made?
The bodywork was painted red all over first and the shape of the silver areas were masked off before applying the silver. I mostly use 3M blue masking tape, which gives a nice clean edge when cut with a scalpel. I use the one for delicate surfaces, which has an orange label. I also use Tamiya masking tape sometimes, but it doesn't cut as easily.

Yes, I used a template for the curves on the nose. I drew up the shape of the nose silver area on a piece of scrap polystyrene sheet, applied some tape, then cut the curves in the masking tape with an Olfa compass cutter. I then marked reference points on the nose with a pencil and applied the cut tape. The stripe down the long hood was actually harder to mask as the long hood is in three parts and the stripe had to be straight and also match across the joints.

Red paint pigments are translucent, so the bodywork was given a coat of red oxide as a ground coat, before applying the red topcoat. I'd still be applying topcoats if I'd tried to paint the final red straight over the white polystyrene, or the silver.

I mix the TVT red paint myself and use a 50/50 mixture of VR passenger red and VR wagon red spraying enamel from Steam Era Models. I use an airbrush, so no idea if there is anything similar available in a spraycan. The paint is solvent based, so can't be posted, but most of the model railway shops around Melbourne sell SEM paint. Branchline at Croydon would be the nearest to you when Steve opens up again.

Custom waterslide decals are a problem here in Oz. There were a couple of suppliers around, but the ones I knew have closed down.

There's a mob in Sydney that advertise a custom printing service, but I haven't dealt with them, so no idea of what the quality is like. The price looks reasonable, so they would be worth talking to at least and they seem to have been in business for a while.

https://drdecalmrhyde.com.au/custom-decals/

Tropic Blunder wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:18 pm Incredible model. I'm a massive an of Walkers locos and its always exciting to see another model of one especially the 10 class.
Glad you liked it and I'm happy how it turned out. I'm not a great fan of the later Walkers diesels, but the 10 class is attractive as diesels go and is small enough to be usable in 1:20.3 scale. Mine want's to be a VR flat top T when it grows up........ 8)

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by GTB » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:54 pm

gregh wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:21 am I am pleased to see that you test out your motor/gearbox/electronics in a mock-up to get the speed correct. (always my step 1 also)
I do a lot of testing while building a model loco. This one was a long way out into new territory and needed a lot of testing to get things the way I wanted, but it all worked out in the end. Much easier to test as the build proceeds, than have to go back and modify a finished model, or worse scrap major parts and start again.......
gregh wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:21 am I am surprised that you had problems on sharper curves. The overhang doesn't look all that long. Was it clearance of the bogie under the frame or is the model too wide? (sorry if you explained it in the text and I missed it.)
The problem relates to the distance between the bogie pivots and the coupler pivots on the loco and bogie rolling stock. With four wheeled wagons, it's the distance between the axle and the coupler pivot. The greater that distance, the greater the side throw of the headstocks on a curve.

As first built, that distance was 135mm on the loco, but only 85mm on pass cars, 70mm on bogie wagons and 55mm on four wheel wagons. All the early testing was done with a guards van built on a passenger underframe and there was just enough side play in the loco and van couplers to take up the mismatch between the headstock sidethrows, so I missed that there was a problem. When I tested the loco later with four wheel stock, the mismatch was so bad that both the loco and wagon couplers ran out of sideplay and the heavy loco levered the lighter wagon off the track.

The final fix was to move the loco bogie pivots 25mm off centre towards the headstocks and also recess the couplers 10mm into the headstocks. This reduced the bogie pivot to coupler pivot distance to 100mm and reduced the side throw at the loco headstocks, so there is now just enough coupler side play on both the loco and a four wheel wagon to allow them to run coupled through the curves without derailing the wagon.

All good fun...... :roll:

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by GTB » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:12 am

With the weather improving here the latest TVT motive power has entered service, taking the line into the diesel era.

The loco model is pretty well run in now, but a passenger train was chosen for the first run instead of going straight into goods service, as the Walker railmotor is still awaiting some modifications before re-entering service.

The first photo shows the train at the start of the run, heading through the s-curve leading to the wye junction and the main line.

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Having turned south at the junction, the train is now accelerating off the bridge and heading over the river flats.

Eighth Run-2.jpg
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The next photo shows the train passing around the curve at the southern end and about to enter the long straight.

Eighth Run-3.jpg
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The Pittosporums and the maple tree have grown rapidly during a warm wet spring and much of the long straight is now a tunnel through the greenery and gloomy enough for the loco headlights and marker lights to be visible in daylight.

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The last shot shows the train coming around the northern end curve into the junction.

Eighth Run-4.jpg
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This size train is a trivial load for this loco and it just cruised around running quietly and smoothly. I'm impressed with how smoothly the combination of Polulu gear motors with their closed gearboxes and the acetal final drive gears runs. Any gear noise is barely audible when the loco is running, just the train noise of metal wheels rolling on metal rail.

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by Peter Butler » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:37 am

Magnificent!
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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by Tropic Blunder » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:53 pm

Spectacular
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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by bambuko » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:23 pm

GTB wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:02 pm...
The first part of the project was to build a powered bogie, as there's not much point in continuing if this bit didn't work...
I don't normally stray into this section of the forum (since my interest lies exclusively in steam), but I am glad that I've ended up here :thumbup:
I enjoyed this thread and your usual quality of model building - thank you :!:

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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by TonyW » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:47 pm

I always like a big diesel, and this one is superb.
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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by Tom85 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:50 pm

An exceptional model - thanks for sharing!

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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by RobRossington » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:38 pm

Superb! Love the livery!

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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by ge_rik » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:22 am

The livery on the loco complements to coaches perfectly. That train looks great snaking it's way round the garden.

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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by Andrew » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:29 am

That really does look the business with those carriages, a lovely model. It reminds me of the RH&DR diesels, which I've always thought were rather handsome.

All the best,

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Re: TVT - Mihirung, the Demon Duck

Post by GTB » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:12 pm

We are now well into summer here and La Nina is fading, so the weather is more conducive to a bit of train running. :sunny:

A couple of days ago the temperature was a balmy 20C, the few clouds were white and fluffy and the secateurs have been deployed. So there is now a train size hole through the greenery again and the new diesel has gone into service on the weekly goods train.

The through goods load is ten bogie wagons for a total of 40 axles, but well within the capabilities of the loco. I don't think I've got enough rolling stock to really load up this loco, as the rolling resistance of this goods train even on curves is only about 1/4 of the drawbar pull.

The first photo shows the train waiting for the off. I had to wait for a cloud to pass in front of the sun to take this photo, as the camera angle is pointing at the sun at this time of day and the lens flare overwhelms the camera electronics........

Ninth Run-1.jpg
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Next shot shows the train departing for the southern end of the line, which to confuse matters is actually the up direction on the TVT, via the great pittosporum forest.

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Emerging into the sun again from the green tunnel along the back straight formed by the maple and the pittosporums.

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Further into the run crossing the river flats and the girder bridge.

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Approaching the end of the run through the curves between the junction and the yard.

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Sitting in the shade at the end of the run, while the crew have wandered off in search of liquid refreshment. I still have no idea how long this loco can run with a heavy train and a full battery charge, but I do know it is significantly longer than my attention span. :roll:

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Th-th-th-that's all folks.

For the info of those with that white stuff on their track, whatever it is, today was the start of a forecast heat wave here, so no more running trains outside for a while.

Monday in Melbourne is forecast to be 37C with a UV index of 12 (extreme), so I'll be inside the house with a good book, a cold drink and an ice cream on a stick. 8)

Regards,
Graeme

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