Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by ge_rik » Sun May 02, 2021 6:28 pm

Jimmyb wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:13 am
Steve, yes it will be nice to see how the "hiccups" are over come, and as you say another great build thread.
I agree. Really looking forward to seeing how this turns out. No doubt it'll be a fine build.

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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by JMORG » Mon May 03, 2021 8:56 am

Morning all,

Kit is looking good so far!

Just to add my 2c into the quality issues you described - I've built wooden kits from quite a few suppliers now and from what you describe it's fairly typical of uncommon occurrences. The warping issue can happen at any point, even during a build infact! The laser cutting process, that occasionally happens on all the kits from all suppliers - it's worth remembering that increasing the power can lead to overburning, ruining the kits detail and possibly causing a fire! It's easy to cut-up using a glass "board".
For your 3D printed parts, they look fairly typical of an FDM (Fused Deposition Modelling) part. Use filler primer and they'll be pretty good. I'm fairly certain that all of those parts will be black anyways on the Funkey, unless you're going with the "Blue Brick" paint job!
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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by ge_rik » Mon May 03, 2021 11:30 am

I must admit, I don't have a wide range of experience with laser cut kits. I hadn't realised that the problems of partial burn-through were typical of most kits. I must have just been really lucky with the laser cut kits I've bought and assembled so far.

Anyhow, it sounds as if those issues are easily resolved and so this will no doubt turn into a great looking model. Looking forward to seeing the final outcome.

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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by Peter Butler » Mon May 03, 2021 11:48 am

Some interesting points raised by JMORG which make me want to ask more questions....
Firstly, as in all product manufacturing, different materials are often used, but with the certain knowledge that laser damage and material distortion can take place (and is apparently acceptable?), I think it only fair that potential customers are made aware. I have mentioned some manufacturers by name in this thread who's products are made of thinner ply or MDF, none of which I have had any such issues with. I have also previously mentioned (elsewhere) of the distortion of thicker plywood on a kit purchased from I.P. Engineering, which, to Ivan's credit, he immediately replaced with another kit.... Good customer service in action there!
So, why is it that some manufacturers continue to use problematic materials?
The 3D printed parts also raise concern about correct use of materials and printing method used. I have no personal experience of the subject but there are many members on the Forum who amaze us with their printed products, all of which show a greater level of skill than the ones shown above. So... if they can do it, why can't professional manufacturers offer the same quality? It must be in their interests to provide a product commensurate to the cost of kits rather than disappoint customers and bring reputations into question.
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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by JMORG » Mon May 03, 2021 1:10 pm

You raise some good points Peter regarding the wood. In terms of distortion I guess it's mainly down to
• How the plywood is produced;
• How it's treated;
• How it is stored prior to the supplier;
• How the material is stored at the supplier;
• How the sprue is cut;
• How it is stored at the purchasers.
I've had kits that have warped during construction, after the initial box was made in fact! This was a Jurassic WHR brake van, of which Mike replaced the woodwork. Jurassic kits are actually very fine kits and are wonderful to make. Comparing to IP; although more substantial compared to Jurassic, they can also warp if I'm not careful!

In terms of the 3D printing side of the kit, I can go quite in depth over why the quality might not be very good (it's my occupation in fact). It can come down to several reasons:
• The machine itself (quality Vs cost);
• Printing methodology - is is Fused Deposition Modelling, Selective Laser Sintering ect
• What material you use;
• What material parameters you use;
• How you store your material;
• The day of the week, the planets alignment (even at work, some builds will simply fail when the exact same build previously worked fine).

I've got an FDM machine at home, the quality of the prints is pretty indifferent and the machines quality is pretty poor to be honest, but the manufacturer simply states "it is what it is". Luckily, I only use it for small, detail parts so it's not an issue.

I also have one of PDF's Double Fairlie's being built. This kit is produced on an FDM machine (you can clearly see the lines) and requires coat after coat of filler primer and sanding to get a good finish. Speaking to Peter online, he seemed to be aware of the limitations of 3D printing and thus started to involve more laser cutting into his newer kits. Unfortunately, Peter passed away a few weeks ago (the hobby has lost a key newcomer in my opinion).

I can go on for hours on the limitations of 3D printing, I posted on the 3D print sub-forum previously that if anyone wants advice I'm happy to give!
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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by georgesheppard » Mon May 03, 2021 3:04 pm

I must admit, the more I get into the build of this locomotive the more I'm enjoying putting the kit together. There are a few more annoyances (to me!) about the design of the kit but generally it goes together pretty well. I managed to get a good amount of time to work on this over the last couple of days. Both the cab ends are now constructed, filled and have had a first pass of sanding.


A chamfer needs to be created on many of the cab pieces to achieve the desired angle of the front. I think I've made a satisfactory job of putting this together and I'll use filler to hide the gaps..
IMG_1159.jpeg

Speaking of filler here are the two cab fronts after some filler and a light sanding. I think I'll probably give the entire locomotive a coat of primer and then touch up any gaps as required.
IMG_1163.jpeg

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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by georgesheppard » Mon May 03, 2021 3:12 pm

I've now fitted the side panels to the locomotive. It's starting to really come together. The main chassis has been lightly sanded. I've tidied up the 3D printed parts with some model filler so they can now be attached. Currently pondering whether to fit the roof before the primer goes on, I figure it might be easier to access without the roof in-place.

Screenshot 2021-05-03 at 15.05.16.png

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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by TonyW » Mon May 03, 2021 4:14 pm

georgesheppard wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:12 pm
I've now fitted the side panels to the locomotive.
Something odd with those doors. The two with vents at the right hand end should be in positions 5 and 6, not 5 and 7.

The little vent on door 4 is for the exhaust from the cab heater.

The two sides are not mirror images of each other.
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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by -steves- » Mon May 03, 2021 5:36 pm

Purely from a build perspective it's looking very good. I am looking forward to seeing it with some paint on, it always makes a huge jump forwards in terms of where you feel you are at in the build. :thumbup:
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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by georgesheppard » Mon May 03, 2021 5:52 pm

TonyW wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 4:14 pm
georgesheppard wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:12 pm
I've now fitted the side panels to the locomotive.
Something odd with those doors. The two with vents at the right hand end should be in positions 5 and 6, not 5 and 7.

The little vent on door 4 is for the exhaust from the cab heater.

The two sides are not mirror images of each other.
It seems this is incorrect in the kit unless I’m missing something.



Side by side from the instructions
7951600F-BFE1-49DA-882A-860DCA561DE3.jpeg

Side by side on photos.
B775FDDC-71A8-48ED-8488-4C9452494097.jpeg

The incorrect panels are a double and a single, if they weren’t firmly affixed by super glue I could probably cut the double panel in half and use the blank door in place of the door with the grill. I’m more concerned about damaging the panels than it being totally correct, so my model will have to keep the incorrect panel arrangement.

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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by Tingewickmax » Tue May 04, 2021 1:03 am

The problem with a lot of mechanical subject matter that is modeled is that it evolves over time and its working life, sometimes in just minor details, sometimes in more radical ways.Take this loco in it's original form as Imported from SA, before it's evolution into a "Western" mini me we are more familiar with. It would seem to bare no relation to it's original guise now except they are both diesel locos with two bogies.

Researching subjects can be problematic. If you do not have access to the research material used in the development of this product you cannot be sure if at some point the doors were arranged as seen in the kit and not as seen in more widely accessible published pictures. Some research material can be misleading when seen in isolation. I'm sure the maker or the Ffestiniog railway can nail it for you. If not then somebody might have needed a visit to Specsavers. Max

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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by TonyW » Tue May 04, 2021 10:19 am

And then there was this: Image

The doors lift off their hinges and can easily be swapped around. Quite why somebody thought the fuel tank needed a vented door is a mystery to me.
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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by Tingewickmax » Tue May 04, 2021 10:49 am

TonyW wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:19 am
And then there was this: Image

The doors lift off their hinges and can easily be swapped around. Quite why somebody thought the fuel tank needed a vented door is a mystery to me.
Precisely my point. And it seems as the doors are configured in the model it appears, at least on that side of the loco. The other we can glimpse in the instruction sheet but does it match the other side of the loco as pictured at that point ? It can be a problem when the widely accepted published detailing/configuration of a prototype does not match the way it is depicted in a scale representation. As they say the devil is in the detail.

Trust me research can be a real nightmare when producing models of, for example, racing cars of any era. There, a specific subject could be altered in appearance not just between races but actual testing and practice sessions.......and your buyer is very well aware of all the variations and when and how they manifested themselves. So you have to be extra careful when verifying your research material and stating what and when you model offering is depicting. The model railway world is so much simpler. Max

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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by georgesheppard » Wed May 05, 2021 8:43 pm

I managed to make a little more progress yesterday evening. I covered up some of the chassis joins with cross patterned plasticard. I don’t think this is accurate to the actual loco, further googling leads me to believe the pattern is straight lines.

I think it looks good though!

808128FD-C00D-4D6C-92CE-2FD89555932E.jpeg

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Re: Yatton Models - Vale of Ffestiniog

Post by Peter Butler » Wed May 05, 2021 9:35 pm

I did exactly the same with mine, and I think it looks good too!
IMG_3259.JPG
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