Merlin locos
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- Cleaner
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I have an old Merlin Midas. Boiler OK. Ran OK from around 1985/6 to 1988. No wheel bearings so frames wore. Valve gear worn too especially rods and crank pins.
Despondency set in as repair effort seemed futile given the poor design.
Lack of parts saw it put in a box. Still have it. Would like to get parts for it if possible.
Boiler is good.
Any help gratefully received.
Despondency set in as repair effort seemed futile given the poor design.
Lack of parts saw it put in a box. Still have it. Would like to get parts for it if possible.
Boiler is good.
Any help gratefully received.
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- Fireman
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- Location: Croydon, Surrey
Given the number of Beck and Merlin locos built from Beck parts out there it does seem that there is a market for someone to produce upgrade and repair parts. Now that laser cutting and other CNC production has dropped in cost in would seem to be a project that may be worthwhile. I have seen some with reversing valve gear fitted which would be an interesting upgrade to have. Anyone know how many were made? I would guess several thousand maybe even close to 10,000.
Cheers, Steve
Brass or Copper Bolier and what gas can be used
Could anybody prehaps confirm Merlin Monarch's circa 1987 would these loco's have a Brass or Copper bolier, just got one myself which seems to be in great shape but would like to look after it, I have the original catalouge states sliver soldered and use butane but I also have a sheet which staes in colder conditions you can use propane mix
Tony
Tony
- paullad1984
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Milton loco works DID do replacment parts, but they appear to of gone very quiet, not sure if they're still goingfunandtrains:100278 wrote:Given the number of Beck and Merlin locos built from Beck parts out there it does seem that there is a market for someone to produce upgrade and repair parts. Now that laser cutting and other CNC production has dropped in cost in would seem to be a project that may be worthwhile. I have seen some with reversing valve gear fitted which would be an interesting upgrade to have. Anyone know how many were made? I would guess several thousand maybe even close to 10,000.
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Could be either, I would lean towards a copper one as I don't think the Monarch used a Beck Boiler but I could be wrong. As for gas I use butane all the time and it seems to work for me.Could anybody prehaps confirm Merlin Monarch's circa 1987 would these loco's have a Brass or Copper bolier, just got one myself which seems to be in great shape but would like to look after it, I have the original catalouge states sliver soldered and use butane but I also have a sheet which staes in colder conditions you can use propane mix
Tony
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer!
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It is the Beck boilers that are certainly brass and very suspect. if they have been kept empty and only distilled water used they may be OK, but it is a risk. Mine (on an early, inside framed Midas type) was like a sieve - but then I did leave water in it for a dozen years....
I suspect that early Merlin built boilers may also have been brass, but my late 80's Mayflower and Major are both copper. The later Majors has reversible valve gear, but I have never seen this on a Mayflower or late, Mayflower type Monarch.
I use butane in the summer but mix when the temperature is below about 10 C.
Cheers
Chris
I suspect that early Merlin built boilers may also have been brass, but my late 80's Mayflower and Major are both copper. The later Majors has reversible valve gear, but I have never seen this on a Mayflower or late, Mayflower type Monarch.
I use butane in the summer but mix when the temperature is below about 10 C.
Cheers
Chris
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Chris, it seems to be a common misunderstanding by many in the 16mm live steam community that distilled water will not do any harm but in fact distilled water is very corrosive being an oxidiser, in a brass boiler only using pure distilled water is not much better than using acidic water and will corrode out the zinc in the brass. Brass boilers are actually intended to be used with slightly hard water as the calcium and magnesium in the water stop the water attacking the zinc. It is not an ideal situation but you want a small amount of lime scale in a brass boiler to make it last, so every few runs have a run with 1/10 tap water to distilled water and don't leave distilled or rain water in the boiler! It is a balancing act to keep a thin layer of protective scale without allowing it build up to much so that lumps can come lose and damage valves and pistons. Copper boilers are easier to look after as you don't have to think about them that much when run on distilled water, copper being attacked much more slowly.Chris Bird:101270 wrote:It is the Beck boilers that are certainly brass and very suspect. if they have been kept empty and only distilled water used they may be OK, but it is a risk. Mine (on an early, inside framed Midas type) was like a sieve - but then I did leave water in it for a dozen years....
I suspect that early Merlin built boilers may also have been brass, but my late 80's Mayflower and Major are both copper. The later Majors has reversible valve gear, but I have never seen this on a Mayflower or late, Mayflower type Monarch.
I use butane in the summer but mix when the temperature is below about 10 C.
Cheers
Chris
Beck boilers were very well made but many were wrecked by being misused, not helped by them not being supplied with good running instructions in English!
Cheers, Steve
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Re: Brass or Copper Bolier and what gas can be used
The only Merlin locos that I have seen with brass boilers use German made Beck boilers fro either Anna or the larger Helene locos, these are easy to spot as they have the regulator and oiler in the front dome and Wilesco style glass level window in the cab boiler end. Some Merlin locos used these boilers un modified others had the domes, smoke box and chimney altered to look more British.Tony:101020 wrote:Could anybody prehaps confirm Merlin Monarch's circa 1987 would these loco's have a Brass or Copper bolier, just got one myself which seems to be in great shape but would like to look after it, I have the original catalouge states sliver soldered and use butane but I also have a sheet which staes in colder conditions you can use propane mix
Tony
Cheers, Steve
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That's interesting Steve - and I guess it applies to the Regner locos which I believe have brass boilers.
However, back in the 80's when I ran the old Merlin/Beck, I only used hard tap water and left it in there. When I cut the perforated boiler open in 2007, I found a nice layer of limescale all over.
These days I just use water from the condensing tumble drier (no fabric conditioner used) and the Merlin has a copper boiler that a friend helped me to make.
Cheers
Chris
However, back in the 80's when I ran the old Merlin/Beck, I only used hard tap water and left it in there. When I cut the perforated boiler open in 2007, I found a nice layer of limescale all over.
These days I just use water from the condensing tumble drier (no fabric conditioner used) and the Merlin has a copper boiler that a friend helped me to make.
Cheers
Chris
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I was told that the Regner German instruction say not to use distilled water but a blend with tap water but as my own German is not good I can't say I've read it myself.Chris Bird:101356 wrote:That's interesting Steve - and I guess it applies to the Regner locos which I believe have brass boilers.
However, back in the 80's when I ran the old Merlin/Beck, I only used hard tap water and left it in there. When I cut the perforated boiler open in 2007, I found a nice layer of limescale all over.
These days I just use water from the condensing tumble drier (no fabric conditioner used) and the Merlin has a copper boiler that a friend helped me to make.
Cheers
Chris
I use tumble dryer water too, I guess as Becks were made in bulk there were good and bad boilers as I know people who are still running 30+ year old Beck Annas without issues.
One thing I know to still clear of is commercial descaler as I fitted a chrome plated brass bottle trap to my bathroom basin 5 years ago and when I tried to unscrew it a few months ago it just crumbled in my hands as the zinc had been leached out by the limescale remover used to clean the basin once every few months.
Cheers, Steve
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I shuddered when I read this topics title! In 1986 I purchased a Merlin Monarch new. I had a morgage and two young daughters. There was no internet with forums like this. I had lots of trouble with the engine and getting spares out of Merlin was awfull!! They never answered the phone or letters. I even contacted the Assistant Inspector at Welshpool delivery office to see if Merlin was still in existence? My union was going on strike and I had to cancel my Lady Anne on order.When I did order again I made the CRASS mistake of buying a Merlin....need I go on?
- Chris Cairns
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Chris CairnsRegner Lumber Jack English Instructions wrote:Use distilled water, to which 3-5% tap water has been added. This minimizes the aggressive characteristics of distilled water and allows residual water to be able to be left in the boiler without draining for storage or inactive periods without resulting in the dreaded pitting.
Water from condensation dryers or dehumidifiers is also well suited.
From what I have heard I don't think you were alone in your problems with Merlin around this time. We are very luck at the moment that most of the major producers and retailers of Garden Railway stuff are pretty reliable and offer a good service, I have heard some horror stories about several suppliers from years ago.I shuddered when I read this topics title! In 1986 I purchased a Merlin Monarch new. I had a morgage and two young daughters. There was no internet with forums like this. I had lots of trouble with the engine and getting spares out of Merlin was awfull!! They never answered the phone or letters. I even contacted the Assistant Inspector at Welshpool delivery office to see if Merlin was still in existence? My union was going on strike and I had to cancel my Lady Anne on order.When I did order again I made the CRASS mistake of buying a Merlin....need I go on?
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer!
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From what I see there are still plenty of working Merlins around so most must have ran well, a pity that a few duds were sold to people. I actually seem to see more Merlins running these days from the 1980s than Roundhouse so either they have worn well or more are being restored. I have a Merlin Monarch which runs just as well as my Roundhouse Billy which less than half it's age.
Cheers, Steve
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Re: Merlin locos
I've recently acquired a late model (outside frames & loosely simulated valve gear) Monarch. The electrics are in need of a bit* of a tidy up, so I plan to remove the old 25MHz receiver & install modern stuff. One thing I can't figure out is where the batteries are supposed to go? Unlike the Mayflower, which had the servo in the cab on the right hand side and the batteries under the footplate, Monarch has the servo under the footplate. My loco had a very crude plastic box to house the batteries added to the rear of the cab that definitely isn't original.
I don't really want the batteries visible through the cab windows if I can help it, as they would be if I used the space freed up by removing the large receiver. So far my best option seems like 4 NiMh AAAs, taped together in a custom shape & squeezed in the cab on the right hand side between the boiler & cab. Trouble is, I'd have to permanently tape & solder up my own pack to have them in a diagonal configuration. A flat pack won't fit in front of the lubricator, & a square pack will be really tight between the cab & the boiler. I can make my own pack, but this then means I can't charge the cells individually.
The other option is a pair of 18650 cells. Am I nuts to consider putting lithium batteries in a live steam loco?
*This is a big under statement.
I don't really want the batteries visible through the cab windows if I can help it, as they would be if I used the space freed up by removing the large receiver. So far my best option seems like 4 NiMh AAAs, taped together in a custom shape & squeezed in the cab on the right hand side between the boiler & cab. Trouble is, I'd have to permanently tape & solder up my own pack to have them in a diagonal configuration. A flat pack won't fit in front of the lubricator, & a square pack will be really tight between the cab & the boiler. I can make my own pack, but this then means I can't charge the cells individually.
The other option is a pair of 18650 cells. Am I nuts to consider putting lithium batteries in a live steam loco?
*This is a big under statement.
Re: Merlin locos
Any chance that you could mount them as a flat pack to the underside of the cab roof?
My Roundhouse Billy has this arrangement and works quite well in an otherwise very cramped cab.
My Roundhouse Billy has this arrangement and works quite well in an otherwise very cramped cab.
Phil
Re: Merlin locos
I also wondered about fitting 4 x AAA in a flat pack under the cab roof, as it is common in Roundhouse steam locos. That's where they are in Lilla, which isn't particularly spacious in the cab dept. We usually look down on model locos when running them, so the battery pack is less obvious under the roof.
If you are prepared to make a new mounting bracket, modern servos are small enough that you could probably relocate the servo into the cab, put a square battery pack under the cab floor and fit the receiver up under the cab roof.
I don't have any experience with Li-ion cells in model locos, so can't help you assess the likely risk of using them in a live steam loco.
High operating temperatures will reduce the operating life of any rechargable cell, but NiMH cells are more resistant to high temperatures and with Li-ion cells there is also a risk of thermal runaway. From what I've read, LiFePO4 cells are recommended as an alternative to Li-ion cells in high operating temperatures.
Regards,
Graeme
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Re: Merlin locos
On this generation of Merlin loco, the Mayflower & Major included, the gas tank is in the roof between the cab windows, & the receivers of the time stuck to one side of it. I could definitely fit a square pack in the space freed up by relocating the receiver, (Deltang receivers are much smaller) but the batteries would be very visible through the cab windows. Relocating the servo is an option, but would require some drilling off the original chassis to mount it which I'd like to avoid.
I'm just stumped as to where the batteries would have been originally!
I'm just stumped as to where the batteries would have been originally!
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