Modifying Roundhouse Katie smokebox door

RetroCoder · Post by **RetroCoder** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:23 am

I recently bought the boiler kit for a Roundhouse Katie. I was surprised to find that the smokebox door had been soldered shut. I would like to modify this so that it can be opened and locked. Has anyone done this or got any pictures?

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:21 pm

That's silver soldered shut. I suppose you could get it to open if you got it hot enough, but I bet it would be easier to ring Roundhouse and ask them if you could trade yours for one with a separate door. I'm sure they make them available for the guys who do coal conversions.

As for why they solder the doors on, I have no idea!

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:55 pm

I have just worked on a Billy smokebox. It too had a silver soldered door.

To get it to open (and close) took five steps:

1 heat gently till the chimney glue fails, chimney then pulled out.
2 suspend the smokebox, door down, over fire bricks and heat to dull red when the silver solder melts and the door falls off.
3 spend ages filing away a vast amount of silver solder
4 line up the door and smokebox and drill for a hinge pin - take care!
5 sort out a smokebox strap to enable the door "dart" to pull the door closed.

Hope this helps.

RetroCoder · Post by **RetroCoder** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:01 am

How did you make / fit the smokebox strap? Do you have any photographs or drawings of this locking arrangement. I'm not too sure what to do in this area.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:45 pm

The "strap" was a strip of mild steel bar about 1/4" by 3/32" section and long enough for a tight fit horizontally across the inside of the smokebox, central to the door hole. A 10BA csk screw through the smokebox front and into the strap each end secures. On the Billy I managed to fit the screws just behind the door so that they do not show. Finally I closed the door (minus "dart") and spotted through the dart hole to locate a tapped hole for the "dart" screw - I think 8BA from memory.

Sorry, no photos, haven't worked out how to post these yet.

TonyW · Post by **TonyW** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:55 pm

GCR:72720 wrote:I think 8BA from memory.

6BA, but the new ones are M3.

RetroCoder · Post by **RetroCoder** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:10 pm

I spoke to Roundhouse and they told me that if I send them my smokebox they will replace it with the unsoldered parts. This will make life a lot easier than trying to de-solder the original. I will take some pictures as I complete the job, so that anyone else wanting to tackle this can see how I managed it based on all your feedback.

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:06 pm

Did Roundhouse happen to mention WHY they solder the smokebox doors? I've always wondered why they make the parts separately and then solder them together.

RetroCoder · Post by **RetroCoder** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:18 pm

I didn't ask them why they soldered the door shut, I just asked them if they could supply the parts separately. The email came back saying no problem and that they will do the swap. I guess that if they did provide the parts separately people would want the extra locking parts so that they could be properly hinged. If people didn't want to do this they would need to solder the door shut which I guess would need a lot of heat and may need equipment they don't have at home. It would be nice though, if they made people aware that they can supply the loose items or pre soldered.

Apparently I have a box at home waiting for me, I hope that is the parts from Roundhouse.

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:55 am

That actually makes sense. Let's see pictures of yours when it's done.

TonyW · Post by **TonyW** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:01 am

Keith S:72902 wrote:Did Roundhouse happen to mention WHY they solder the smokebox doors?

Because it provides a quick and easy fixing. Anything else (dart bar, threaded holes, etc.) requires more time, so more cost, and there is no need to get in there on a gas-fired loco.

There is also consistency to consider. None of the smokebox doors on Roundhouse locos open, and the soldering closed method is only used on those that have the cast brass smokebox and door (George, Mildred, Billy, Lady Anne, Katie, Russell, Fowler). Others (such as Bertie, the Darjeeling and the Sandy River) have a simple brass wrapper to form the smokebox and the whole front (door and ring) is a one-piece casting that is pushed in to the wrapper and clamped or rivetted in place.

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:58 pm

Yes I suppose as a layperson I do not find silver soldering "quick and easy", hence my confusion, but of course if you happen to work in a steam engine factory, it actually IS quick and easy because you already have everything set up!

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Modifying Roundhouse Katie smokebox door

Modifying Roundhouse Katie smokebox door

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