New project, coal fired live steam kit time

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artfull dodger
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New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by artfull dodger » Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:30 pm

The stars have aligned and I managed to finally get my hands on a Riverdale Elke kit that I could get to the USA. I have been interested in this design of coal fired boiler since I first saw them come on the market. They were just way out of budget and we all know Joep would not ship to the USA, now he wont even ship outside the EU. A real shame as his design is excellent for the beginner, a coal fired engine that functions much like its gas fired cousin from Roundhouse. Anyways, the original owner started assembling the frame, which I will partially take apart so it can be etch primed and painted. Colors will be all black with red frame, Darjeeling spot lights on the smokebox and eventually on the 2 axle tender I plan to order from RH once my profit sharing check comes in March. I am going for the jungle/bush railway look of a working engine. I also plan to get a couple of the Swift Sixteen cow catchers to cut narrower(just as wide as the engine frame), gotta push those pesky monkeys off the track. Hope to have everything in my hands in about a week or less. Then the fun can begin!
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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by Garethh » Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:36 am

Looking forward to seeing this come together! Any chance you could post some detailed photos and maybe some measurements of the boiler when it arrives…?

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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by artfull dodger » Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:07 pm

I sure can, post up a list of which dimension you want from the boiler and if you want them in metric or inches.
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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by Keith S » Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:44 pm

Cool, the Roundhouse "Billy" is a fun engine. Even more so I'm sure with an aftermarket coal boiler. Looking forward to seeing you progress building your Billy!

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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by Garethh » Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:35 am

It’d be handy to know the dimensions and positions of the flues, as well as the firebox including material thickness if possible? Not too bothered about imperial or metric, whichever comes naturally to you!

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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by TonyW » Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:57 am

Isn't there a copyright on the design?
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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by Garethh » Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:05 am

I’m not looking to copy the design directly, just considering modifications to a different design and it’d be handy to have reference from something that I know works

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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by Keith S » Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:22 am

TonyW wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:57 am Isn't there a copyright on the design?
I don't think it matters if you're just building one for yourself. Especially if you live in one of the countries to which the manufacturer obstinately refuses to sell.

Anyway considering the boiler is designed to fit exactly within the dimensions of an existing Roundhouse locomotive, if you were to "design" your own twin-flue, dry-backed boiler for a Billy or a Lady Anne, how different could it possibly wind up being?

If someone manages to get their mitts on his boiler despite the fact that he refuses to sell one to that person, I think it serves him right if they measure it and share the measurements with others to whom he also refuses to sell boilers. Almost none of his business at that point, as long as they don't start selling copies in countries where he DOES deign to do business.

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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by artfull dodger » Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:29 am

From what I hear, he is all but retired from building them with less than 10 being done and only for EU countries. Its such a unique design, I am supprised someone has not tried to clone it. Seems everytime someone does a coal fired engine, they go whole hog with working side/saddle tanks, some kind of axle or ugly crosshead driven pump and the expense that goes with all of that. His design kept to the KISS principle, keeping it simple so that everyone that can run a gas fired model, could do coal firing. I find 20 min run times then top up water with a pump bottle, much easier than trying to fiddle with an axle pump bypass that is finiky at best and steals power due to the drag they create. Its a design I could see Roundhouse themselves offering if they got so inclinded, whcih I highly doubt will ever happen. But then again, some of the recent models would have been pipe dreams just a few years ago before the next generation took over from Rodger.
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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by artfull dodger » Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:44 am

The fun has begun. The two flue tubes are 10mm internal diameter and 1mm thick, set low in the boiler. The firebox copper thickness is 2mm, Under the sand box on the Billy/Elke is the goodall valve to replenish boiler water. Safety valve is in the normal location as on the gas fired Billy boiler. This is just set together in the pic, so nothing is aligned or fastened down, so things are a bit cockeyed. This is as far as the original owner got the project. I painted the frame, boiler wrapper, boiler back head and am starting chassis assembly tonight. Going with an all black with red frame Austrian/German look to suit my LGB rolling stock. If profit sharing is good(I had lots of down weeks last year) then I will order one of the 2 axle tender kits from Roundhouse, along with a few other bits and bobs.
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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by Garethh » Tue Mar 01, 2022 8:48 am

Many thanks for the measurements, much appreciated. Any chance you could take one up inside the firebox? Looking forward to seeing this come together should be interesting!

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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by artfull dodger » Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:39 pm

Yes, I will get a pic here later today looking up inside the firebox.
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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by artfull dodger » Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:36 am

New pic time, progress is being made. By the time the missing parts are shipped to me, I will be ready to light a fire in her.
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view inside the firebox before i put the boiler on the chassis
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Fire door/damper closed
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Damper cracked open to cool the fire
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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by Garethh » Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:54 am

Wow, that was some speedy painting!

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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by IanT » Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:30 am

That looks like a solid wall firebox AG? e.g. no water space around the fire?
So probably relatively simple to build compared to a fully water enclosed type...

Is the grate a conventional 'bar' type too, or something different like a rosebud?

I can see how you can manually 'damp' the fire but can't see how the automatic damping (a bi-metalic strip?) is being applied?

BTW - Mention has been made of 'Copyright' - but my understanding of copyright is that it only involves published written or drawn materials - any other unique 'feature' of this design would have to covered by patents to be protected. Not that I wish the gentleman producing these boilers anything but the best of luck with his business - but any boiler I build will be solely for my own use of course.

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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by artfull dodger » Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:51 pm

The damping is not automatic, its just the ability to slightly open the firebox door a bit to allow cool air to put pulled in and not up thru the fire. I will get a picture of the grate later today, its a conventional bar type. The firebox is dry sided and quite thick. 2 large, 10mm internal diameter, flue tubes set low in the boiler barrel. Its a very different take on coal firing and one, from all the videos I see, works quite well. I will find out here soon enough. I never did find any bad reviews of this design/brand like we saw with Sabre Steam coal fired boilers. A friend of mine is hoping to get one of the DJB open cab saddle tank Hunslets that is coal fired.
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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by IanT » Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:49 pm

That's very intersting AD - thank you.

I'd assumed the damping was automatic - partly because I'm sure I've seen a YouTube of a continental cousin (possibly German) running a 16mm coal fired engine with such a device fitted.
Haven't been able to find it at the moment though.

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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by artfull dodger » Thu Mar 03, 2022 2:47 am

It might look automatic as the Riverdale is designed for it to be controlled via RC servo on the 3rd or 4th channel. Here is the basic engine completed for the most part. Once the missing safety valve and its mounting adapter arrive, I can fire her up for the first time.
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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by artfull dodger » Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:06 pm

Successful first run on coal. Lots of detail work still to do, but she runs really nice. Lots to learn and practice with the coal firing before the fist public run next month.
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Re: New project, coal fired live steam kit time

Post by Keith S » Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:08 am

A great success! It certainly didn't take you long to assemble that engine. It looks great and obviously you didn't find it too difficult to get a coal fire going. What kind of coal do you have where you live?

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