Lubricating a live steam engine

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GAP
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Lubricating a live steam engine

Post by GAP » Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:41 am

I bought out of hibernation my Accucraft "Ruby No1" and had a couple of runs today.

The loco was bought 10 years ago run about 3-4 times then mothballed, the instructions I have call for all the moving parts to be lubricated and I am wondering what oil to use.
I have seen 3 in 1 oil recommended and sewing machine oil are these OK or should I use some other oil.

I have steam oil for the piston lubricator its just the connecting rods and other moving parts I am wondering about.

Any suggestions welcome
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Re: Lubricating a live steam engine

Post by Jimmyb » Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:58 am

I use ordinary car engine oil, SAE 10W 40, I think it is. For the moving parts most oils will do as long as it is done regularly. However, if this is incorrect, I would be happy to be corrected :)

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Re: Lubricating a live steam engine

Post by Garethh » Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:11 am

Jimmyb wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:58 am I use ordinary car engine oil, SAE 10W 40, I think it is. For the moving parts most oils will do as long as it is done regularly. However, if this is incorrect, I would be happy to be corrected :)
Ditto, I’d say maybe stay away from anything too heavy and sticky like 3 in 1 though

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Re: Lubricating a live steam engine

Post by GAP » Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:51 am

I used the oil for my HO locos this time it is fairly thin, would sewing machine oil work?
I do have a couple if litres of an engine oil I will look at tomorrow morning.
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Re: Lubricating a live steam engine

Post by Trevor Thompson » Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:19 am

I think sewing machine oil would be perfect. I think it needs a lighter oil, and anything for a vehicle engine is likely to be too viscous.

In the UK there is something called "Duck oil" which car accessory shops sometimes sell. I use that, and it is available by the litre, rather than a tiny tin. It is very like sewing machine oil.

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Re: Lubricating a live steam engine

Post by GAP » Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:09 pm

Does anybody have a pdf copy of how to flip Rubys steam admission, ie making changing the eccentrics.

Evidently they are set at the factory to run better in reverse than forward.

All the manuals I try to download give me a security warning and go no further.
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Re: Lubricating a live steam engine

Post by GTB » Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:21 am

GAP wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:41 am I have seen 3 in 1 oil recommended and sewing machine oil are these OK or should I use some other oil.

I have steam oil for the piston lubricator its just the connecting rods and other moving parts I am wondering about.
Accucraft recommend 3 in 1 oil for the chassis bearings in their loco manuals. Roundhouse recommend 20W-50 multigrade lube oil for the chassis.

Singer sewing machine oil is OK for HO mechs, but far too thin for live steam chassis. There's more than one 3 in 1 oil, but assuming Accucraft mean the original, that was introduced for use on bikes a century ago. It's heavier than Singer oil, but still too thin for a hot steam loco chassis. 3 in 1 will keep the mozzies down when it gets hot though, as it contains citronella as an anti-corrosion additive.

Live steam loco chassis get hot, very hot in the case of a Ruby. Oils get thinner as they get hotter, so to keep the lubricant in the bearing and maintain the lubrication layer, the oils used at high temperatures are thicker than ones intended for room temperature work.

I assume this is the thinking behind Roundhouse recommending a multigrade oil, as they are formulated to work across a range of temperatures. They stay thick enough to form a lubrication layer in the bearing at temperatures where thin oils like Singer and 3 in 1 are as thin as water and don't provide much in the way of lubrication.


Personally, I follow Roundhouse's thinking and use a 10W-40 multigrade oil on live steam loco chassis. I'd prefer to use ISO32 hydraulic oil which is a pure mineral oil, but now that I'm retired I don't have access to small quantities of specialist oils and have to make do with what I can get from the local hardware sheds and speed shops.

If you use multigrade motor oils, don't be tempted to get a high performance synthetic oil, they contain esters and can attack some plastics. Not an issue on a live steam loco, but it can be if you use them on rolling stock and electric powered locos.

I use a needle tip applicator bottle for oiling around. You can find them for about $10 for a pack of ten on Ebay. They are used by crafters as glue applicators, but work just as well with oil and are more controllable for lubricating oils than the type of bottle that Roundhouse supply with locos for using steam oil.

Regards,
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Re: Lubricating a live steam engine

Post by GTB » Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:30 am

GAP wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:09 pm Does anybody have a pdf copy of how to flip Rubys steam admission, ie making changing the eccentrics.
I've got a copy of Dave Hotmann's instructions on the 'puter, but I see Dwight Ennis has given you a link in his reply on MLS.

My Ruby is a current production kit version and has a modified valve gear with larger ports that runs better than the earlier ones. There's an article on modifying the ports on older Ruby models by Bill Allen that is somewhere on the My Large Scale site. I was going to do the mod to mine, but Accucraft had already done it.

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Re: Lubricating a live steam engine

Post by GTB » Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:15 am

Trevor Thompson wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:19 am In the UK there is something called "Duck oil" which car accessory shops sometimes sell. I use that, and it is available by the litre, rather than a tiny tin. It is very like sewing machine oil.
Duck Oil isn't sold here in Oz, but I found the data sheets on line.

Turns out it is Swarfega's version of WD-40, basically a penetrating oil. Good for squeaky hinges, sticky locks, rusty bolts and as a cutting fluid when machining aluminium.

Like WD-40, it is mostly comprised of distillate, so not much use as a bearing lubricant, especially as most of it would evaporate at elevated temperatures.

Sewing machine oil is a lubricating oil, but too thin for live steam chassis in my opinion. Would be OK for rolling stock and battery electrics. I used Singer oil for many years in HO before switching to Labelle 108. For large scale I've been using Labelle 107 for rolling stock, which is a little heavier than Singer oil and Labelle 106 grease in gearboxes.

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Re: Lubricating a live steam engine

Post by GAP » Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:58 am

Thank you Graeme very useful.

I have a bottle of 20W-50 oil in the shed so I am good to go.

I have medical needles and syringes (used in an aviation workshop years ago) on hand, just cut off the pointy bit and all is good
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Re: Lubricating a live steam engine

Post by Jimmyb » Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:56 am

GTB wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:21 am
GAP wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:41 am I have seen 3 in 1 oil recommended and sewing machine oil are these OK or should I use some other oil.

I have steam oil for the piston lubricator its just the connecting rods and other moving parts I am wondering about.
Accucraft recommend 3 in 1 oil for the chassis bearings in their loco manuals. Roundhouse recommend 20W-50 multigrade lube oil for the chassis.

Singer sewing machine oil is OK for HO mechs, but far too thin for live steam chassis. There's more than one 3 in 1 oil, but assuming Accucraft mean the original, that was introduced for use on bikes a century ago. It's heavier than Singer oil, but still too thin for a hot steam loco chassis. 3 in 1 will keep the mozzies down when it gets hot though, as it contains citronella as an anti-corrosion additive.

Live steam loco chassis get hot, very hot in the case of a Ruby. Oils get thinner as they get hotter, so to keep the lubricant in the bearing and maintain the lubrication layer, the oils used at high temperatures are thicker than ones intended for room temperature work.

I assume this is the thinking behind Roundhouse recommending a multigrade oil, as they are formulated to work across a range of temperatures. They stay thick enough to form a lubrication layer in the bearing at temperatures where thin oils like Singer and 3 in 1 are as thin as water and don't provide much in the way of lubrication.


Personally, I follow Roundhouse's thinking and use a 10W-40 multigrade oil on live steam loco chassis. I'd prefer to use ISO32 hydraulic oil which is a pure mineral oil, but now that I'm retired I don't have access to small quantities of specialist oils and have to make do with what I can get from the local hardware sheds and speed shops.

If you use multigrade motor oils, don't be tempted to get a high performance synthetic oil, they contain esters and can attack some plastics. Not an issue on a live steam loco, but it can be if you use them on rolling stock and electric powered locos.

I use a needle tip applicator bottle for oiling around. You can find them for about $10 for a pack of ten on Ebay. They are used by crafters as glue applicators, but work just as well with oil and are more controllable for lubricating oils than the type of bottle that Roundhouse supply with locos for using steam oil.

Regards,
Graeme
Graeme, some very useful information here, and backs up my thoughts earlier in the thread.

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