Live steam at a bargain price...?

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CSL
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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by CSL » Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:17 pm

Andrew wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:50 pm
Thanks for reporting back on your progress, I'm really intrigued. Fingers crossed for a good outcome!

Andrew.
I think a 'good' outcome is extremely unlikely! But he's said he's happy with the risk...

EDIT: see below.
Last edited by CSL on Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by CSL » Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:17 pm

CaptainClockwork wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:37 pm ... the possibility that I'll have to ask PayPal for my money back is pretty high, but what's life without a little risk?
The thing for me is this: assuming it is a scam (which I confirm I do assume), it's not so much about people who can afford a one-off loss of fifty quid taking a bit of risk, but more about (a) giving that fifty quid to the black market and (b) actively encouraging the scammers both to invent more scams and take money from people who can't easily afford to lose it.

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by CaptainClockwork » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:10 pm

CSL wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:17 pm
CaptainClockwork wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:37 pm ... the possibility that I'll have to ask PayPal for my money back is pretty high, but what's life without a little risk?
The thing for me is this: assuming it is a scam (which I confirm I do assume), it's not so much about people who can afford a one-off loss of fifty quid taking a bit of risk, but more about (a) giving that fifty quid to the black market and (b) actively encouraging the scammers both to invent more scams and take money from people who can't easily afford to lose it.
That's a completely valid way to look at this, and I do agree that this isn't something I would actively encourage others to do, but I like to think that I'm helping to educate the public, if only a little. If this does indeed prove to be a scam, I have a paper trail to prove it as such, so if and when the next scammer tries to hit the garden railway community, we're that much more aware and on our guard.
And hey, on the very small off-chance that this ISN'T a scam, it'll at least make for an interesting story.
Best Regards,
Ian

- I collect and operate weird and wonderful live steam locomotives -

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by ge_rik » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:33 pm

CaptainClockwork wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:10 pm That's a completely valid way to look at this, and I do agree that this isn't something I would actively encourage others to do, but I like to think that I'm helping to educate the public, if only a little. If this does indeed prove to be a scam, I have a paper trail to prove it as such, so if and when the next scammer tries to hit the garden railway community, we're that much more aware and on our guard.
And hey, on the very small off-chance that this ISN'T a scam, it'll at least make for an interesting story.
Ian
Assuming you paid through PayPal, you should be protected. I've found PayPal to be very forthcoming on the occasions when goods I'd paid for failed to turn up. I do hope it all works out and your loco (and the track...) arrives, though.

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by Jimmyb » Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:06 am

As per my post on the first page, I still have not had a response from my email to them, but maybe they are just very busy.

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by CSL » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:17 pm

Jimmyb wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:06 am As per my post on the first page, I still have not had a response from my email to them, but maybe they are just very busy.
Maybe...

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by Keith S » Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:18 am

It boggles my mind that anyone thinks this could possibly be anything BUT a total scam. Every day my "face book" page features these obviously Asian adverts featuring things including:

a large tandem-rotor radio controlled helicopter
an all-metal radio-controlled bulldozer large enough to carry a child
a large ducted-fan-powered radio-controlled jetliner
an internally-fired live-steam locomotive with walschaerts valve-gear (which we see here)

all being on offer for less than £80 and any one of which any enthusiast knows would cost no less that £1000 normally.

Every time I see one of these ads I report it to "face book" as a scam. They reappear days later under a different name.

In the case of the helicopter, people have fallen for this scam, ordered one, and received a small die-cast plastic toy helicopter that most certainly does not fly.

I am sorry to be rude, or sound scold-y, but I am extremely surprised anyone on this forum thinks for a minute a live-steam loco can be had for 60 quid or that there will be any satisfying outcome to this at all.

In fact, I will, in a private YouTube video that I will post here, actually eat my hat if Captain Clockwork receives a live-steam engine of any type whatsoever for his £60.

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by Garethh » Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:31 am

Over the summer I ordered an inflatable kayak for a similarly bargain price from a legitimate looking site. After placing the order I realised it was shipping from China and looked at the site closer and started getting a bit suspicious. I received a tracking number, which worked, and a few weeks later a small parcel turned up. They’d sent a pair of knock off gucci sunglasses. Tried contacting the seller and no reply, managed to get money back from my bank fairly easily though.

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by ge_rik » Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:02 pm

Keith S wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:18 am In fact, I will, in a private YouTube video that I will post here, actually eat my hat if Captain Clockwork receives a live-steam engine of any type whatsoever for his £60.
Please, let the loco turn up :thumbright: :shock:

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by CaptainClockwork » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:33 pm

Keith S wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:18 am In fact, I will, in a private YouTube video that I will post here, actually eat my hat if Captain Clockwork receives a live-steam engine of any type whatsoever for his £60.
For the record, I hold no illusions about what I've done - for every chance that I bought a live steam loco, there are 99 other chances that I've ordered a box full of nothing but misshapen brass and COVID-19 (Any package that arrives at my location, regardless of origin, is thoroughly disinfected before use). However, I thought, and continue to think, that this will serve as a good example of what happens when you trust a scam; if any poor sap needs to lose their money, I'd rather it be me, and not some youngster who doesn't know any better.
For the record, I'd offer a counter-bet against your hat, if only the odds weren't stacked against me.
Best Regards,
Ian

- I collect and operate weird and wonderful live steam locomotives -

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by CSL » Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:34 pm

Scam appears confirmed over in the '16mm garden Railway' Facebook group*.
(*Not to be confused with the 16mm Association Facebook group, of course, where at least one other person has stated they've also placed an order.)
Someone has received something rather different from advertised, but has stated success in getting a refund from PayPal.

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by dewintondave » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:52 am

These scammers prey on the greedy. I don't have a problem with that :D
Best wishes,
Dave

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by CSL » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:11 am

dewintondave wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:52 am These scammers prey on the greedy. I don't have a problem with that :D
I do.
Because there's a very fine line between 'being greedy' and 'looking for a bargain'.
And because it's putting money into the black market.
And because it encourages more scams.
And because not all* scams are obvious.

*Or indeed any, given that from what I have read at least four people across this forum and two Facebook groups have actually decided to respond to this one.

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by ge_rik » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:02 pm

I've always fancied doing what James Veitch did ...... but never had the opportunity or the time
https://www.ted.com/talks/james_veitch_ ... spam_email

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by CSL » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:23 pm

CaptainClockwork wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:37 pm ... the possibility that I'll have to ask PayPal for my money back is pretty high, but what's life without a little risk?
Come to think of it, assuming the money is reclaimed from PayPal, does PayPal take the hit/reclaim the loss from an insurance policy? Or to put it another way, does legitimate business hand money to the black market as a direct result of its customer's independent decision?

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by dewintondave » Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:45 pm

CSL wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:23 pm
CaptainClockwork wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:37 pm ... the possibility that I'll have to ask PayPal for my money back is pretty high, but what's life without a little risk?
Come to think of it, assuming the money is reclaimed from PayPal, does PayPal take the hit/reclaim the loss from an insurance policy? Or to put it another way, does legitimate business hand money to the black market as a direct result of its customer's independent decision?
I'd be happy for PayPal not to refund these greedy folks, they need to learn their lesson
Best wishes,
Dave

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by CSL » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:28 am

dewintondave wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:45 pm
I'd be happy for PayPal not to refund these greedy folks, they need to learn their lesson
That rather misses the point of my post, which was that even if a "purchaser" is refunded, as far as I can see money is still given to the scammers, therefore encouraging more scams to be created.

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by dewintondave » Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:49 am

CSL wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:28 am
dewintondave wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:45 pm
I'd be happy for PayPal not to refund these greedy folks, they need to learn their lesson
That rather misses the point of my post, which was that even if a "purchaser" is refunded, as far as I can see money is still given to the scammers, therefore encouraging more scams to be created.
I don't know who's worse, the scammer or the greedy? They are welcome to each other
Best wishes,
Dave

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by Jimmyb » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:28 am

dewintondave wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:45 pm I'd be happy for PayPal not to refund these greedy folks, they need to learn their lesson
Not everybody who falls for scams are greedy, some just don't have a lot on money and are careful what they do with it, other just do not see it as a scam because they "don't see scams", and just think it is a bargain.

I know the old adage "if it looks to good to be true it probably is", but the thing about that is "probably" which means on occasion it is true.

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Re: Live steam at a bargain price...?

Post by Jimmyb » Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:29 am

ge_rik wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:02 pm I've always fancied doing what James Veitch did ...... but never had the opportunity or the time
https://www.ted.com/talks/james_veitch_ ... spam_email

Rik
Rik, absolutely loved it, not sure how true the story was but it brought some cheer.

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