A Burnt Burner?

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cooltrain
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A Burnt Burner?

Post by cooltrain » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:50 am

Hi guys,
I recently took apart my Roundhouse Billy for a repaint and decided to remove the burner to see what it looked like.
IMG_8618-min (1).JPG
Upon removing it from the loco I realised that the end of it had melted. I cannot figure out what has caused it to melt
does anyone have any suggestions as to why it happened?

Thanks,
Ronan.
"So what's yer name?" asked the driver.
"Charlie, sir."
"I don't address my firemen by their Christian names, son. Give me your surname."
"Darling, sir."
"Okay, Charlie, start shoveling."

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Re: A Burnt Burner?

Post by GTB » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:11 pm

cooltrain wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:50 am
I recently took apart my Roundhouse Billy for a repaint and decided to remove the burner to see what it looked like.
IMG_8618-min (1).JPG
Upon removing it from the loco I realised that the end of it had melted. I cannot figure out what has caused it to melt
does anyone have any suggestions as to why it happened?
Hi Ronan,

The photo isn't visible for some reason......

I wouldn't have thought a RH loco burner using butane fuel had enough output to melt brass. I did some tests once to find out the maximum steaming rate of a RH boiler and ran the burner at full bore until the gas ran out, which took about 12 min. There was no damage to the burner in that period.

I think you said you were the second owner, so it's possible that at some time in the past someone has made a repair to the burner using an oxy-acetylene torch. One of those would certainly be capable of melting brass if the operator wasn't careful.

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: A Burnt Burner?

Post by daan » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:32 pm

It doesn't look melted to me. Ik looks cracked. It's usually a form of material fatique, caused by normal wear.
Each time you light the burner, it gets hot, expands and after cooling down it shrinks again. This creates tension in the material and after a while it can crack.

If you use another fuel than butane, or mixed fuels, these temperature differences are a bit more extreme causing the burner to wear down more quickly because it gets a lot hotter..
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Re: A Burnt Burner?

Post by cooltrain » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:36 am

Hi Graeme and Dan,
I know the loco has never been disassembled before my ownership, and I believe it only ran couple of times prior, so it can't be due to a poor repair.

I'll get another photo of the burner, but it didn't look cracked to me. I have never mixed fuels though and I usually turn the gas down as low as I can when I run it.
Thanks,

Ronan.
"So what's yer name?" asked the driver.
"Charlie, sir."
"I don't address my firemen by their Christian names, son. Give me your surname."
"Darling, sir."
"Okay, Charlie, start shoveling."

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Re: A Burnt Burner?

Post by Big Jim » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:31 am

Could it be the result of some contamination 'burning off' the burner? I can't see how it could have got contaminated though. Its unlikely that a burner would suffer from dezincification unless the boiler or superheater pipe was leaking and I would have thought this would have been noticeable.
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Re: A Burnt Burner?

Post by IanC » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:17 am

I'm not familiar with the burner, never having taken my Roundhouse loco apart. Please can someone post a picture or tell me where I can find a picture of what the burner should look like for comparison?

I'd be interested to know what makes the posters think it's melted or cracked.

Thanks,

Ian
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Re: A Burnt Burner?

Post by cooltrain » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:44 am

Ian on Roundhouse's website there is a very descriptive how it works page with drawings of a burner.

It could be contamination, Jim. After one particular roll over the loco ended up with dirt down the funnel. :shock: I believe we used CRC to break up the dirt, so it could be that.
"So what's yer name?" asked the driver.
"Charlie, sir."
"I don't address my firemen by their Christian names, son. Give me your surname."
"Darling, sir."
"Okay, Charlie, start shoveling."

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Re: A Burnt Burner?

Post by LNR » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:04 pm

Magnifying the pic. does show some erosion of the burners surface, but I'm wondering if Roundhouse used a crimping tool to close the end of the tube at some point in production. Ive seen tubes closed with a double crimp like that. Just a thought.
IMG_8618-min (1).jpg
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Re: A Burnt Burner?

Post by artfull dodger » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:19 pm

The end of the burner is crimped on that older burner. The rest looks like errosion from use, as the end of these can get cherry red when being overfired a bit. If the engine is a pre FX type burner engine, a new burner would be a nice upgrade as they are much quieter and much more efficient. Once steam is up, I can turn mine back till I think its gone out and still make plenty of steam. No reason you cannot use that burner, just might make a bit more noise from the erroded ports there at the front of the burner. Mike the Aspie
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Re: A Burnt Burner?

Post by IanC » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:05 am

cooltrain wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:44 am
Ian on Roundhouse's website there is a very descriptive how it works page with drawings of a burner.
Thank you Cooltrain. I should have checked there. I forgot Roundhouse helpfully post a lot of information on their website.

Ian
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Re: A Burnt Burner?

Post by dewintondave » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:32 am

When I was trialing burners for my steam diesel, I noticed the first one glowed red at the end, jeopardising the silver soldered-on end cap. This was a half flue length burner. So I lengthened it to nearly full flue length. Long burners run cooler.

Image
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Re: A Burnt Burner?

Post by Tingewickmax » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:22 am

Might not a simple e-mail to Roundhouse, with the picture attached, provide an explanation and resolve your issue ? They are known for their excellent customer service and they would probably know what they are looking at.

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