Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Discussion of Live Steam locomotives should be located here

Moderators: Big Jim, laalratty

User avatar
IanC
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 634
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:15 am
Location: Nr. Warrington, Cheshire

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by IanC » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:27 am

Hydrostatic Dazza wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:54 am

The, "they are smaller than my dick so they are toys " gets a big SIGH from me!
All scales are toys. Ponder. If one gives some thought to the philosophy of a particular crossover point of “being a toy to not a being a toy” linked to scale then it is realised that it is a flawed concept and usually a result of subjective bias due to ignorance, justification of one’s own hobby style and or a lack of application of critical thinking on the subject. (I think it should not be a subject but……….) Does it not become a toy when the loco you make can pull you along as one sits your back side on a riding trolley with your legs hanging over the sides ? Is it a toy if you buy it, spend loads of gold coin on a big loco to impress others ? It is a typical male thing, like my dick (toy) is bigger than your dick.
Even the 12” to the foot scale locos and trains are toys post the late 1960s. Why are we involved in heritage railways, preservation, model engineering? The answer is entertainment, it is entertaining to us and gives us some satisfaction and intrinsic reward, it is a hobby. The scale of a loco or what ever has nothing to do with a perceived cross over point of toy to not being a toy. A 2 ½ loco, a 7 ¼” Big Boy loco is a toy.
I am currently on a Reciprocating Engine Course so I can be a volunteer foot plate crew at the Mary Valley Rattler railway which is soon to recommence operations. That is playing. It is my entertainment, I do not do it to earn my quid and so pay my taxes. So this is playing with “Toys”. Steam stopped paying work here on the QR network in 1969, so since then they are toys.
It is just the complexity, engineering, safety aspects, skills required, budgets, costs and infrastructure that grows exponentially with scale. (and the paper work!)
If one’s sole chosen path of professional expression ie: making steam locos or models and selling them as your sole source income then it is work and you are in the “toy /hobby industry” Just as if you worked for Airfix or Roundhouse or as a fitter on a heritage railway for your wages. One is working professionally in the Toy/hobby Industry. Heritage railways are in the entertainment business, ie: Tourism.
I agree, but when I got into the preservation world it was not to play but to preserve and educate future generations (my kids and grandchildren), so that steam trains were not just something they saw and read about in books and videos. For me the playing is a bonus.
Ian

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:49 am

IanC wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:27 am
I agree, but when I got into the preservation world it was not to play but to preserve and educate future generations (my kids and grandchildren), so that steam trains were not just something they saw and read about in books and videos. For me the playing is a bonus.
Yes, you want to share this love and that means it is entertaining for you and along the journey it is giving you satisfaction and intrinsic rewards.
All of which is a good thing.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1621
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by FWLR » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:39 am

It’s all very well saying that we are only playing and we are, but it’s the snobbery with other people who run/play with steam or battery locos that get my goat, even those who work/play on heritage/preservation lines I have met who won’t have anything to do with others who run the smaller scales. It’s the point of fact that we are keeping the rich history that is associated with Steam or Diesel locos that we are helping to not just educate, but also enjoy running what ever scale we use.

I for one don’t have a great deal of knowledge about the way the Railway industry ran, but since coming into the hobby at one of the smallest scales ( N Gauge ) I have now more insight into how trains changed the world all around us.


The CNC wire cutting is a good bit of technology, I used to run a wire cutter and other such types of CNC. It would make the making of your boilers and any other work you would need to do a lot more of a less stressful task.

I made this has an exercise for a course I did in programming and operating a CNC Wire Cutter.

DSCN3614.JPG
DSCN3615.JPG

I honestly can’t remember why the SAPA was used for it, but it was a brilliant exercise to do because of the different radius needed to complete it.
Rod

Life is so easy when I run my trains. :thumbright:


https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11364

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:28 pm

FWLR wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:39 am
It’s all very well saying that we are only playing and we are, but it’s the snobbery with other people who run/play with steam or battery locos that get my goat, even those who work/play on heritage/preservation lines I have met who won’t have anything to do with others who run the smaller scales. It’s the point of fact that we are keeping the rich history that is associated with Steam or Diesel locos that we are helping to not just educate, but also enjoy running what ever scale we use.

I for one don’t have a great deal of knowledge about the way the Railway industry ran, but since coming into the hobby at one of the smallest scales ( N Gauge ) I have now more insight into how trains changed the world all around us.


The CNC wire cutting is a good bit of technology, I used to run a wire cutter and other such types of CNC. It would make the making of your boilers and any other work you would need to do a lot more of a less stressful task.

I made this has an exercise for a course I did in programming and operating a CNC Wire Cutter.


DSCN3614.JPGDSCN3615.JPG


I honestly can’t remember why the SAPA was used for it, but it was a brilliant exercise to do because of the different radius needed to complete it.

"but it’s the snobbery with other people who run/play with steam or battery locos that get my goat"


Again, this does not stand up to application of considered thought, where is the cross over point ? For me, and this is speaking for me, I like to see things operate at realistic speeds. Others don't care so much, however I still enjoy seeing others enjoying themselves how ever way they wish. It is about being social and enjoying the whole gig.

The wire cutting quotes I received were beyond my means at $ 750 aud, sigh, so I was out with the hack saw and one hour later I had the first piece cut off this block I have had on the shelf for over 18 years. It was tough stuff, I would have got it for making machine bike frame making fixtures etc. Now I am about to make a big mess of the Red Room. I detest machining aluminum as it makes considerable mess, one must use cutting fluid and it sticks every were even to vertical surfaces and the swarf goes all over the place. One cannot use the magnetic pick up tool to keep it all under control as one works. After the two former blocks are made I will do a deep clean of all the workshop rooms. I want to make the formers accurately and also use these for locating and drilling the stay holes etc in the copper wrappers. Hence I am using alloy rather then hard wood blocks. Well thats the plan, inspired by some one else's boiler making on a another forum.
I am drilling the first block that will be the former so I can mount it on the rotary table.

Image
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
pandsrowe
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:15 pm
Location: West Norfolk, UK

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by pandsrowe » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:56 am

I know this is a bit late but did you consider a wooden former but faced with a sheet of steel/ally screwed on the face to give additional strength and wear resistance? I seem to remember this was a method advocated by LBSC and others as being a lot easier if one didn't have a suitable chunk of solid metal available for the former. When I made the boiler for my Rob Roy I used pieces of oak that I cut from old furniture and with repeated annealing I was very surprised how easy it was to form the copper. It's very tempting when you have the job set up in the vice for forming to just keep on hitting with even bigger hammers but as soon as the copper stops bending easily, that could be after just two or three blows of the hammer, take the copper out and re-aneal. When I formed the firebox wrapper I was amazed to find that I was able to bend some of the copper with just using finger pressure. Of course hammer blows were required for completion but I'm trying to convey to you how soft copper really is when it is correctly anealed.
Phil

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:59 pm

pandsrowe wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:56 am
I know this is a bit late but did you consider a wooden former but faced with a sheet of steel/ally screwed on the face to give additional strength and wear resistance? I seem to remember this was a method advocated by LBSC and others as being a lot easier if one didn't have a suitable chunk of solid metal available for the former. When I made the boiler for my Rob Roy I used pieces of oak that I cut from old furniture and with repeated annealing I was very surprised how easy it was to form the copper. It's very tempting when you have the job set up in the vice for forming to just keep on hitting with even bigger hammers but as soon as the copper stops bending easily, that could be after just two or three blows of the hammer, take the copper out and re-aneal. When I formed the firebox wrapper I was amazed to find that I was able to bend some of the copper with just using finger pressure. Of course hammer blows were required for completion but I'm trying to convey to you how soft copper really is when it is correctly anealed.
Yes, wooden formers were considered, however I chose solid alloy because it is a stepping stone to my magnum opus in the years to come. I am following the process some other chaps have done and will used the formers to locate the wrappers for stay drilling and other machining operations. Yes, keep annealing copper and it is very malleable and keep annealing it so it does not work-harden, unseen cracks etc. I gave this some thought and other than my time, I have the materials on hand so no cost to me and the machining is interesting, but messy but all the workshops need a deep clean soon. The inner fire box former will be a tricky part to make, I am still pondering over a few different directions to make this.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:46 am

Roughing out the first former last night.

Image
Last edited by Hydrostatic Dazza on Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:52 am

A bit of too and fro and then a wee rub with 320 grit. This former is good to go. But I did make a whoops and it is under size. I was lacking attention as I was digesting the news that bespoke bicycle frame making world lost Dario Pegoretti suddenly. I will use .60mm brass sheet under the copper to bring it all close to spec.

Image
Last edited by Hydrostatic Dazza on Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:34 pm

Machining alumimium creates an awful mess so before I clean up I get straight into the former for the inner firebox wrapper.
But I was undecided on how I was going to create the two radius corners. I was trying to work out how to design and make a cutter that would profile cut the corner radius, but the geometry had me stumped, then later last night I was reading a recent Model Engineer mag and the chap was making whistles for his traction engine. He made a former out of gauge plate, then used it in his tool post in his lathe. Nothing new there, but I thought perhaps it could use some gauge plate and spin it.
Then

Image
I have a couple of those four tool face cutters that come with mills which I use once every 5 -10 years, perhaps I could clamp the profile tool made from gauge plate in one of these. A fly cutter with profile. I am sure it has been done before. When I ordered some gauge plate to make the expansion links I stocked up on other sizes so I have some 1/4 inch which would work.
I had cut the block off the day before. 18 t and some huff and puff.

Image
Before breakfast I was into the Red Room by 6.30am. Cut a piece of 1/4" gauge plate. Filed the profile and a touch up with the die grinder.
Image
(Die grinders are a wonderful thing) filed some rake to the cutting edge.

Image

Polished up the cutting edge with 1000 grit.
Image
Cooked it up, dropped it into a tin of oil. Hard, did not bother to temper it.
Image
Had breakfast on the back deck with MAM. While it rained. Yes, we got some rain, YAY! Then to the mill, increasing the awful mess, aluminium is errrrr yukkkk. Then I roughed out the corners, just up and down with a four flute. Then I fitted up the profile fly cutter to finish it off. Advanced the cuts .15mm each time.

Image
The result was as good as I could have ever expected.

Image
I was a happy chappie. A wee rub with 600 grit and all was sweet.
Image
I was pleased with my days work.
Image
Image
I am all set to copper bash now. :lol: :-)
However I just deep cleaned the Red Room, it took three hours. Sigh! I am about to wheel the trolleys back in now the floor has dried after mopping.
Last edited by Hydrostatic Dazza on Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Chairman
Chairman
Posts: 3592
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:44 pm

I do enjoy your posts, very interesting reading.

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:19 pm

tom_tom_go wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:44 pm
I do enjoy your posts, very interesting reading.
Super, it is nice to know. I am trying to make a wee story of a journey of learning, doing stuff and having fun.

I forgot in my tiredness last night to put up a pic of the cutting in process. I will add that pic now.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:00 am

MAM fitted her coupling rods last night. A wee bit of opening out the leading rod pin holes required.

Image
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
IanC
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 634
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:15 am
Location: Nr. Warrington, Cheshire

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by IanC » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:16 pm

Hydrostatic Dazza wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:19 pm
tom_tom_go wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:44 pm
I do enjoy your posts, very interesting reading.
Super, it is nice to know. I am trying to make a wee story of a journey of learning, doing stuff and having fun.
I agree with Tom. I could never acheive anthing like you are doing, but nevertheless it is a fascinating account of your build which I am enjoying immensely
Ian

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:35 pm

The Red Room is a hive of activity in the evenings
MAM is working on her Lady Ann kit

Image

Image

Image

MAM swapped the cheese heads out for hex.

Image
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:42 pm

I am all self taught and I am dim at the best of times. I have no trade, I left school at 15 yo. I think it is simply imagination, have a vision, then persevering at the vision. I just read a lot, give it a go and follow in the footsteps of others. There is a fair bit of self cursing and mistakes along the way. I am just starting this journey of Model Engineering. It helps that MAM and I have no children from previous lives. This is just a story of a choo choo and the Potters Orchid Railway. It is about having fun. We are pleased that others enjoy the story.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Mitch stack and 5 guests