Llewellyn Loco Works #1

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Hydrostatic Dazza
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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:29 pm

Took the day off work, up at 4.30 am, 2 hours drive to Gympie. Spent the day on RM2017/RM2023 (RM2000 class railmotors) with fellow trainees, Stan and Greg and our Tutor John.
The arvo was topped off with two trips on the first staff section to Monkland. This section was part of the old north coast mainline until the deviation (to avoid the steep twisty climb into Gympie) was in place Circa 1989.
It was 45 years after my last time I was in a railmotor on that section of line visiting my Grand Parents in Gympie and who would have thought I would drive one many years later. Later we progress down the old Brooloo branch line that once left the mainline just south of Monkland. My fellow trainee Stan was the last station master at Monkland when it was cut off the mainline and closed.
Got home at 7.00pm and then enjoyed two glasses of red. A nice day, living the dream !
One hiccup due to the terrible drought the whole of the eastern Australia is currently suffering, steam loco training may be postponed due to the fuel loads beside the track. The Rattler Railway does not want to burn down the Mary Valley on its first week of training or passenger services. Which might mean more Diseasel training and RM2000 training.


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Me having a go.

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I am also signed up for "Red Rocket" training int eh months to come (1930s built RM76) which has a crash gear box.

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Living the dream.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Peter Butler » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:45 pm

Good for you Dazza, I'm pleased for you but not so sure about Flash Gordon's can of beans... much prefer the Red Rocket!
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by TonyW » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:04 am

Hydrostatic Dazza wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:29 pmMe having a go.
That'll be a British United Traction power handle ... as used on a lot of UK DMUs.

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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Keith S » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:48 am

The drought is evident by the poorly-looking planter hanging on the station eaves in the first picture!

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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:25 am

TonyW wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:04 am
Hydrostatic Dazza wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:29 pmMe having a go.
That'll be a British United Traction power handle ... as used on a lot of UK DMUs.
Yes, when they built them they imported many of such parts. These units have Rolls Royce 150 hp diesels live under each unit. Some had AEC engines.
Last edited by Hydrostatic Dazza on Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:31 am

Peter Butler wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:45 pm Good for you Dazza, I'm pleased for you but not so sure about Flash Gordon's can of beans... much prefer the Red Rocket!

Awhhh, they are now over 50 years old and much loved here in Queensland
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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by FWLR » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:22 am

That Red Rocket is a fine looking old girl…. :thumbright:

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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:17 am

FWLR wrote: Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:22 am That Red Rocket is a fine looking old girl…. :thumbright:
ah she is, and I get to start the process of learning how to be part of her life. Who would have thought I would be interested in getting in the sack with Diseasel power................ :P
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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:46 am

For years I have heard about the black art of coal fired live steam in the garden gauges. The trials and tribulations of coaxing coal fired locos to move................ blah blah blah................................................
Well I have seen the proof that it as is as easy as can be imagined, better than the Butane burners, Metho drinkers etc.
Just do it the right way.
Due to fire bans and controlled fuel reduction burns in the Mary Valley the steam loco training etc was canned this weekend, so I went 15 minutes up the with a couple of railway mates to the QSMEE track and Tent run. (goes for for three days and a few nights) A few knocked up a small 32-45mm gauge loop in the grounds (big ground level 5 and 7 1/4 ground level and elevated track) and I met up with Andrew Alison who had his "Jack" loco there. The one that has a wet leg boiler featured in AME mag last year and my inspiration for my locos boiler. This loco is a coal fired wet leg boiler that proves that coal fired is very simple, reliable and easy to do. His Wet Leg boiler steams like a Witch! Blew the Butane burners off the track while towing many kgs of lead loaded trucks. Two tube boiler, wet leg, Rose bud grate that he burns coal of all types, and or char, I would not be surprised if it would steam on decomposed granite. In minutes, with no fuss, with less nonchalance than making a mandane cup of tea, he fills the boiler to the brim, bombed the fire box with char and away it went with many kgs in tow with trucks with plain bearings. Often he had to open the fire door to stop it blowing off. 20 mins runs were not a problem on one boiler fill of water. The Round House Cylinders and valve gear, nothing special, it is just that this is the boiler type/design for coal firing in the narrow gauge garden gauges is the way to go. After reading all the harrowing tales of coal firing I am fully convinced
.

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Looks just like a hard worked industrial loco, because it is what it is.

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I would like to thank Andrew for his time and knowledge sharing today. Very much appreciated by this silly spud. Marvellous, thanks Andrew.
Last edited by Hydrostatic Dazza on Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:01 am

My Riverdale boiler is similar with two large fire tubes rather than loads of small ones that take up space for water and get blocked easier.

I am very comfortable coal firing now and I didn't grow up with coal fired anything.

Great looking loco, are there any videos of it running or firing it up from cold?

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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:51 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:01 am My Riverdale boiler is similar with two large fire tubes rather than loads of small ones that take up space for water and get blocked easier.

I am very comfortable coal firing now and I didn't grow up with coal fired anything.

Great looking loco, are there any videos of it running or firing it up from cold?
No videos, I was too busy flapping my gums.
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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by FWLR » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:56 am

If I had the courage and the money I think I would go for a coal fired loco also. The courage to operate one would be a personal challenge, mainly because my older brother builds his own 3 1/2 inch and 5 inch locos and he classes our 16mm stuff has Micky Mouse. so I would love to show him that a 16mm would run and pull in relation to scale just has much as his bigger stuff.

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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:54 am

FWLR wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:56 am If I had the courage and the money I think I would go for a coal fired loco also. The courage to operate one would be a personal challenge, mainly because my older brother builds his own 3 1/2 inch and 5 inch locos and he classes our 16mm stuff has Micky Mouse. so I would love to show him that a 16mm would run and pull in relation to scale just has much as his bigger stuff.
The, "they are smaller than my dick so they are toys " gets a big SIGH from me!
All scales are toys. Ponder. If one gives some thought to the philosophy of a particular crossover point of “being a toy to not a being a toy” linked to scale then it is realised that it is a flawed concept and usually a result of subjective bias due to ignorance, justification of one’s own hobby style and or a lack of application of critical thinking on the subject. (I think it should not be a subject but……….) Does it not become a toy when the loco you make can pull you along as one sits your back side on a riding trolley with your legs hanging over the sides ? Is it a toy if you buy it, spend loads of gold coin on a big loco to impress others ? It is a typical male thing, like my dick (toy) is bigger than your dick.
Even the 12” to the foot scale locos and trains are toys post the late 1960s. Why are we involved in heritage railways, preservation, model engineering? The answer is entertainment, it is entertaining to us and gives us some satisfaction and intrinsic reward, it is a hobby. The scale of a loco or what ever has nothing to do with a perceived cross over point of toy to not being a toy. A 2 ½ loco, a 7 ¼” Big Boy loco is a toy.
I am currently on a Reciprocating Engine Course so I can be a volunteer foot plate crew at the Mary Valley Rattler railway which is soon to recommence operations. That is playing. It is my entertainment, I do not do it to earn my quid and so pay my taxes. So this is playing with “Toys”. Steam stopped paying work here on the QR network in 1969, so since then they are toys.
It is just the complexity, engineering, safety aspects, skills required, budgets, costs and infrastructure that grows exponentially with scale. (and the paper work!)
If one’s sole chosen path of professional expression ie: making steam locos or models and selling them as your sole source income then it is work and you are in the “toy /hobby industry” Just as if you worked for Airfix or Roundhouse or as a fitter on a heritage railway for your wages. One is working professionally in the Toy/hobby Industry. Heritage railways are in the entertainment business, ie: Tourism.
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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:59 am

Boiler work has commenced. My first ever boiler. I made a plug to fit snugly in the boiler barrel. Machined the ends square in the Myford with the free end in a steady.
Milled the cutout. Pondering the method to make the formers for the firebox wrappers. Maybe CNC wire cutting...........?????


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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Keith S » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:24 am

Hydrostatic Dazza wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:54 am
FWLR wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:56 am If I had the courage and the money I think I would go for a coal fired loco also. The courage to operate one would be a personal challenge, mainly because my older brother builds his own 3 1/2 inch and 5 inch locos and he classes our 16mm stuff has Micky Mouse. so I would love to show him that a 16mm would run and pull in relation to scale just has much as his bigger stuff.
The, "they are smaller than my dick so they are toys " gets a big SIGH from me!
All scales are toys. Ponder. If one gives some thought to the philosophy of a particular crossover point of “being a toy to not a being a toy” linked to scale then it is realised that it is a flawed concept and usually a result of subjective bias due to ignorance, justification of one’s own hobby style and or a lack of application of critical thinking on the subject. (I think it should not be a subject but……….) Does it not become a toy when the loco you make can pull you along as one sits your back side on a riding trolley with your legs hanging over the sides ? Is it a toy if you buy it, spend loads of gold coin on a big loco to impress others ? It is a typical male thing, like my dick (toy) is bigger than your dick.
Even the 12” to the foot scale locos and trains are toys post the late 1960s. Why are we involved in heritage railways, preservation, model engineering? The answer is entertainment, it is entertaining to us and gives us some satisfaction and intrinsic reward, it is a hobby. The scale of a loco or what ever has nothing to do with a perceived cross over point of toy to not being a toy. A 2 ½ loco, a 7 ¼” Big Boy loco is a toy.
I am currently on a Reciprocating Engine Course so I can be a volunteer foot plate crew at the Mary Valley Rattler railway which is soon to recommence operations. That is playing. It is my entertainment, I do not do it to earn my quid and so pay my taxes. So this is playing with “Toys”. Steam stopped paying work here on the QR network in 1969, so since then they are toys.
It is just the complexity, engineering, safety aspects, skills required, budgets, costs and infrastructure that grows exponentially with scale. (and the paper work!)
If one’s sole chosen path of professional expression ie: making steam locos or models and selling them as your sole source income then it is work and you are in the “toy /hobby industry” Just as if you worked for Airfix or Roundhouse or as a fitter on a heritage railway for your wages. One is working professionally in the Toy/hobby Industry. Heritage railways are in the entertainment business, ie: Tourism.
Sorry to interrupt, but I agree with this to such an extent that I had to copy it. These are wise words, well written.

The day someone pays me to haul a few tins of lager across my garden with my Roundhouse locomotive, I'll let you know it's no longer a toy.

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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by IanC » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:27 am

Hydrostatic Dazza wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:54 am
The, "they are smaller than my dick so they are toys " gets a big SIGH from me!
All scales are toys. Ponder. If one gives some thought to the philosophy of a particular crossover point of “being a toy to not a being a toy” linked to scale then it is realised that it is a flawed concept and usually a result of subjective bias due to ignorance, justification of one’s own hobby style and or a lack of application of critical thinking on the subject. (I think it should not be a subject but……….) Does it not become a toy when the loco you make can pull you along as one sits your back side on a riding trolley with your legs hanging over the sides ? Is it a toy if you buy it, spend loads of gold coin on a big loco to impress others ? It is a typical male thing, like my dick (toy) is bigger than your dick.
Even the 12” to the foot scale locos and trains are toys post the late 1960s. Why are we involved in heritage railways, preservation, model engineering? The answer is entertainment, it is entertaining to us and gives us some satisfaction and intrinsic reward, it is a hobby. The scale of a loco or what ever has nothing to do with a perceived cross over point of toy to not being a toy. A 2 ½ loco, a 7 ¼” Big Boy loco is a toy.
I am currently on a Reciprocating Engine Course so I can be a volunteer foot plate crew at the Mary Valley Rattler railway which is soon to recommence operations. That is playing. It is my entertainment, I do not do it to earn my quid and so pay my taxes. So this is playing with “Toys”. Steam stopped paying work here on the QR network in 1969, so since then they are toys.
It is just the complexity, engineering, safety aspects, skills required, budgets, costs and infrastructure that grows exponentially with scale. (and the paper work!)
If one’s sole chosen path of professional expression ie: making steam locos or models and selling them as your sole source income then it is work and you are in the “toy /hobby industry” Just as if you worked for Airfix or Roundhouse or as a fitter on a heritage railway for your wages. One is working professionally in the Toy/hobby Industry. Heritage railways are in the entertainment business, ie: Tourism.
I agree, but when I got into the preservation world it was not to play but to preserve and educate future generations (my kids and grandchildren), so that steam trains were not just something they saw and read about in books and videos. For me the playing is a bonus.
Ian

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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:49 am

IanC wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:27 am I agree, but when I got into the preservation world it was not to play but to preserve and educate future generations (my kids and grandchildren), so that steam trains were not just something they saw and read about in books and videos. For me the playing is a bonus.
Yes, you want to share this love and that means it is entertaining for you and along the journey it is giving you satisfaction and intrinsic rewards.
All of which is a good thing.
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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by FWLR » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:39 am

It’s all very well saying that we are only playing and we are, but it’s the snobbery with other people who run/play with steam or battery locos that get my goat, even those who work/play on heritage/preservation lines I have met who won’t have anything to do with others who run the smaller scales. It’s the point of fact that we are keeping the rich history that is associated with Steam or Diesel locos that we are helping to not just educate, but also enjoy running what ever scale we use.

I for one don’t have a great deal of knowledge about the way the Railway industry ran, but since coming into the hobby at one of the smallest scales ( N Gauge ) I have now more insight into how trains changed the world all around us.


The CNC wire cutting is a good bit of technology, I used to run a wire cutter and other such types of CNC. It would make the making of your boilers and any other work you would need to do a lot more of a less stressful task.

I made this has an exercise for a course I did in programming and operating a CNC Wire Cutter.

DSCN3614.JPG
DSCN3614.JPG (469.39 KiB) Viewed 6128 times
DSCN3615.JPG
DSCN3615.JPG (488.13 KiB) Viewed 6128 times

I honestly can’t remember why the SAPA was used for it, but it was a brilliant exercise to do because of the different radius needed to complete it.

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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:28 pm

FWLR wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:39 am It’s all very well saying that we are only playing and we are, but it’s the snobbery with other people who run/play with steam or battery locos that get my goat, even those who work/play on heritage/preservation lines I have met who won’t have anything to do with others who run the smaller scales. It’s the point of fact that we are keeping the rich history that is associated with Steam or Diesel locos that we are helping to not just educate, but also enjoy running what ever scale we use.

I for one don’t have a great deal of knowledge about the way the Railway industry ran, but since coming into the hobby at one of the smallest scales ( N Gauge ) I have now more insight into how trains changed the world all around us.


The CNC wire cutting is a good bit of technology, I used to run a wire cutter and other such types of CNC. It would make the making of your boilers and any other work you would need to do a lot more of a less stressful task.

I made this has an exercise for a course I did in programming and operating a CNC Wire Cutter.


DSCN3614.JPGDSCN3615.JPG


I honestly can’t remember why the SAPA was used for it, but it was a brilliant exercise to do because of the different radius needed to complete it.

"but it’s the snobbery with other people who run/play with steam or battery locos that get my goat"


Again, this does not stand up to application of considered thought, where is the cross over point ? For me, and this is speaking for me, I like to see things operate at realistic speeds. Others don't care so much, however I still enjoy seeing others enjoying themselves how ever way they wish. It is about being social and enjoying the whole gig.

The wire cutting quotes I received were beyond my means at $ 750 aud, sigh, so I was out with the hack saw and one hour later I had the first piece cut off this block I have had on the shelf for over 18 years. It was tough stuff, I would have got it for making machine bike frame making fixtures etc. Now I am about to make a big mess of the Red Room. I detest machining aluminum as it makes considerable mess, one must use cutting fluid and it sticks every were even to vertical surfaces and the swarf goes all over the place. One cannot use the magnetic pick up tool to keep it all under control as one works. After the two former blocks are made I will do a deep clean of all the workshop rooms. I want to make the formers accurately and also use these for locating and drilling the stay holes etc in the copper wrappers. Hence I am using alloy rather then hard wood blocks. Well thats the plan, inspired by some one else's boiler making on a another forum.
I am drilling the first block that will be the former so I can mount it on the rotary table.

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Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by pandsrowe » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:56 am

I know this is a bit late but did you consider a wooden former but faced with a sheet of steel/ally screwed on the face to give additional strength and wear resistance? I seem to remember this was a method advocated by LBSC and others as being a lot easier if one didn't have a suitable chunk of solid metal available for the former. When I made the boiler for my Rob Roy I used pieces of oak that I cut from old furniture and with repeated annealing I was very surprised how easy it was to form the copper. It's very tempting when you have the job set up in the vice for forming to just keep on hitting with even bigger hammers but as soon as the copper stops bending easily, that could be after just two or three blows of the hammer, take the copper out and re-aneal. When I formed the firebox wrapper I was amazed to find that I was able to bend some of the copper with just using finger pressure. Of course hammer blows were required for completion but I'm trying to convey to you how soft copper really is when it is correctly anealed.
Phil

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