Garden Railway Forum

Should the boiler be a kit as well (ready to solder with flanged ends) or ready to use do you reckon? Perhaps both?

I can't see any problems with offering both. No need to keep the boilers made up. Just assemble when required.
Might be worth checking the liability issues with selling assembled boilers though.

I have looked into boilers and if I make them ready to use, they will be tested on certified test equipment and the test procedure documented.

Fair enough.

I would buy one tomorrow if you had any built.

FWLR wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:06 am I would buy one tomorrow if you had any built.

Well, first I have another move to sort out. This will be the 40th time I move in my life!

I think the budget end of the market is being left behind a bit. I think a very simple loco might appeal to people who would like to get involved with live steam but don't want to take out a second mortgage on their home.

I really like this very simple loco made by Eric Schade:

That was a cute loco, since buying a Willi I have become a fan of geared oscillators. Will keep an eye on what comes out next year. (Only just caught up with this thread)

Busted Bricks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:09 pm

FWLR wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:06 am I would buy one tomorrow if you had any built.

Well, first I have another move to sort out. This will be the 40th time I move in my life!



I really like this very simple loco made by Eric Schade:

I love it, it’s so unique and quirky ..... :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

It's a very simple design and meths fired. There was also the BAGRS some years ago:

http://www.panyo.com/mso/BPE.htm

I reckon I could make kits or RTR locos along those lines at very affordable prices but it seems like scale, highly detailed locos is what is in demand these days.

Well if you did a gas one i would differently buy one.

Busted Bricks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:55 pm I reckon I could make kits or RTR locos along those lines at very affordable prices but it seems like scale, highly detailed locos is what is in demand these days.

These would be popular providing the price was lower than Mamod/MSS and they were reliable which I think is what puts people off buying cheaper brands.

What he said ^^^

The £200 price tag for a RTR MSS loco is hard to beat. It might be possible with meths firing. A single cylinder oscillator geared loco should be a pretty consistent performer. I would not omit a displacement lubricator and would also use CNC turned steel wheels. Boiler would be silver soldered.

In kit form there is more scope for keeping cost down. Steam connections could simply be silicone tubing like on the BAGRS loco. It acts as a safety valve as well. Of course that would not do if running at public events and could not be deployed on a RTR loco. The problem I see with some of the "project" locos that have appeared of the years (the Denver is another one) is that you had to source parts from a number of suppliers. I would want to offer a complete kit for a basic loco and the option to buy upgrade parts/enhancements.

I think the kit idea sounds the way to go as it allows the builder to paint to his/her choice.

I think what would sell is some more realistic chassis of well known engines that are never going to be mass produced. Then you've always got the option of keep adding bits as and when.
Take Talyllyn/Dolgoch/Corris no3, they're well liked but none of the chassis of existing locos are anywhere near the correct wheelbase or wheel diameter or the cylinders are too big and clunky. It would make for an easier build as you could CNC and laser cut the bits and you only have to air test the chassis and not have to build the boiler or the rest of it at all. A lot of people buy stuff and never use it, because it's all about the buying experience and the 'potential' of a new project.How many locos that have only just been released are almost immediately on ebay? It's probably either the gloss worn off the purchase or the wife needs yet another handbag in a slightly different colour.

Busted Bricks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:55 pm It's a very simple design and meths fired. There was also the BAGRS some years ago:

http://www.panyo.com/mso/BPE.htm

I reckon I could make kits or RTR locos along those lines at very affordable prices but it seems like scale, highly detailed locos is what is in demand these days.

The Basic Project Engine is a marvellous design and easy to build and great fun to steam. You need to watch out for low bridges and tunnels though when running on some lines and portable layouts. You can't lower the funnel much without affecting the boiler draft. These three run successfully on Sterno indoors or outside.

Thanks to all that have posted their opinion. I'm taking it onboard but I can't promise to heed all the warnings and I will ultimately do what I always do - follow my own instincts. That may lead to success or failure - time will tell. I have a fairly clear idea of how I want to go about this now. As mentioned earlier, the investment is not huge. Most expensive item to date is the Schaublin automatic lathe I bought recently. That was under £2K fully tooled. It won't be used solely for making model steam parts. Parts I can't make myself will be subbed out and I can have them made locally to prices comparable to China prices at the volume I need manufactured.I intend to work from a range of standard components as much as possible so I can produce different models without a large investment in tooling for each model. Chassis and bodywork is easy to draw up in CAD and does not cost much to have laser cut. Boilers, gas firing and engines can be sold separately so they can be used for stationary steam engines, boats etc.

I'm still hoping I can somehow manage to acquire a fiber metal cutting laser but the main role for that will not be model railway parts. I have other lines of business where it will be used. However, having one inhouse will give me more flexibility in developing new designs and cutting small batches at reasonable cost.

People sometimes seem to forget that UK is not the only market for live steam engines, nor are buyers purely scale enthusiasts. In fact, given the low value of the Pound currently, sales to UK will probably be quite low. There may also be tariffs imposed in the not too distant future. UK also seems to be the only place where 32mm is widely used as has been mentioned previously. 45mm is a bigger market. I intend to make Cracker locos for 32mm track but any other designs will most likely be for 45mm track if it is not feasible to make them re-gaugeable.

I agree with you regarding 45mm, I do regret not running this type of track as there is more on offer than 32mm.

I do like the look of my 32mm track though. The Peco 45mm is huge!

That's why I like 7/8ths. Less fiddly to build as well.

Not long before I move to Denmark now. I have not been idle though - I've been busy finding material suppliers and getting quotes. It's worth shopping around as prices can vary quite a lot. For instance copper tube is nearly half the price in Germany compared to Denmark, even with shipping.

I have found another supplier for CNC turned parts who can handle some of the smaller parts that my other supplier can't make (he might be getting a swiss lathe before long though). I do need to invest a fair amount of money in parts but since they can also be used for stationary or marine models, this lessons the risk of being stuck with stock that cannot be shifted.

I still think there is a market for budget locos judging by responses in the "Ellie tram" thread and the "new Roundhouse" thread. Once I get the fiber laser I will have a lot of flexibility with regards to quantity as I only have to cut what I need and don't rely on external suppliers with MOQ and setup charges per order.