Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

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scoobster28
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Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by scoobster28 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:07 pm

I just purchased a new Roundhouse Lady Anne engine. She looks great, and I am quite pleased with her. However, I am new to running a live steam engine and my first two runs were pretty short. In fact, after steam-up I managed each run to last about 15 minutes before the gas ran out. During the runs, the safety value was emitting steam though it wasn't making a loud noise. Just a steady stream of wisps of steam.

I might have had the gas too high, though by my estimation the gas valve was only 1/4 turn open the entire time. Since the manual says a 360-degree rotation is FULL on, I assumed 1/4 open would be more than sufficiently low to conserve fuel. But, clearly I am doing something wrong.

The track had no grades, the boiler was filled completely and then 30ml were removed, and the engine was running on butane and the tank was full at the start of each run (it was squirting gas at the end of the fill-up). I was pulling four 2-axle cars but they weren't very heavy and for the second run I only pulled one car. At the end of the run, once everything cooled down I still had some water in the boiler.

I was hoping to get a 20-25 minute run if possible. I know this isn't much to go on, but can anyone perhaps provide some advice on the proper setting for running the engine?

Thanks.

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by Tingewickmax » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:47 pm

You are doing all the right things in the right order. A Lady Anne was my first engine 15 years ago. a very good starting point. I had the same experiences at the start. Finding the right setting for the gas can be a bit trial and error, as you have correctly surmised it is down to the load and terrain. I would suggest once you have got the steam up to 40 - 60 psi, when the safety valve should start to lift then, try backing off the gas to the point you hear the burner go out. Relight and take that point as just below minimum requirement. It can be quite difficult to find this point as the RH burner is so quiet, unlike an Accucraft. Then keep an eye on the pressure gauge and see how well it maintains a steady pressure while running. If it keeps stable, around 40 psi, then you have hit the sweet spot for that load on that line. Also go steady on your regulator inputs, nice gentle openings and closures. You may need someone to check the servo (you are using RC ? it seems from what you are saying you are not )is set to give the full throw needed to operate the regulator properly. RC control can help if not fitted, operating a manual loco is a bit of an art for most. Also, if not already a member, join the 16 mm NGM Association or a local MES with its own track where they run 32/45 mm gauged live steam. Members will help and give guidance if you go along to an open day. Max

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by Jimmyb » Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:03 pm

I bought a RH Fowler early last year, and I find the gas needs to be lowwww, 1/8 turns as long as the gas is burning (once pressure is raised). I also found after running in the runs get longer, the gas gets lower, and there is more pulling power.

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by scoobster28 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:59 pm

Thanks. I will try 1/8 next time.

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by Jimmyb » Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:36 am

scoobster28 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:59 pm Thanks. I will try 1/8 next time.
You will need to listen for the gas burning, but eventually you will "know" the correct setting for your loco :)

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by Keith S » Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:20 pm

I have found that the Roundhouse safety valve seldom seats all the way closed once it has opened. Mine is always giving off a wisp of steam as the engine runs. Some people replace them with a "pop" type valve like the "Weebee" brand. As for me, it doesn't bother me.

If your engine is brand-new, it will use more steam and run for less time than a fully broken-in locomotive will. Even though Roundhouse does a break-in period before selling them, they will continue to break in for a period of time afterward and you will see the engine's performance and efficiency increase as time goes by, both as a result of mechanical things like valves seating better and parts freeing up, and your experience at running it.

As an aside, I have found with my Roundhouse engine (a kit-built one, so it wanted even more breaking-in than a factory-built one) seems happiest at around 25-30 PSI on the gauge. I have no idea how accurate the gauge is, but if I wait until the safety valve lifts fully before driving it, I find the locomotive behaves a little "angrily" almost as though it is impatient to get going. At a lower pressure, it still pulls lots of wagons, including a "momentum" flywheel vehicle, and puffs about sedately. The only trouble with this is that this pressure range is insufficient to get satisfying sound from the whistle I've installed. I don't have enough wagons to test exactly how much it will pull, but at 25 psi I have three open wagons, an enclosed goods van, a "Brandbright" four-wheel coach and an IP Gladstone coach, and a brake van. The goods van has a homemade flywheel contraption geared to one axle. At 25 PSI the loco has no trouble with this train.

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by sjrixon » Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:31 am

Of the topic a bit, but how did you install a whistle?

My gas burner needs to be very, very low and it trots around really well for ages. But it's well run in.

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by Keith S » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:27 am

sjrixon wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:31 am Of the topic a bit, but how did you install a whistle?
I ordered one from DJB engineering. They make a "resonator" style whistle, with a scale(ish) brass whistle to mount on the front of the cab, and a resonating chamber hidden inside the cab. It also comes with a valve and a "banjo" fitting that goes on the steam turret in the cab. Usually, one removes the banjo from one's engine, and sends it to Mr. Bailey for the modification. However, in my case he was on his way to Doncaster to visit Roundhouse, and offered to pick up a new fitting for me and modify that one so I wouldn't have to wait for my part to go all the way to England and back to Canada. Mounting the whistle requires drilling a few holes in the front cab sheet, for which a template is provided, and following some easy instructions.

I like the whistle, but I find that the boiler pressure required to get a good sound is slightly higher than I usually run the engine. However, it is still a fun addition to the engine. I believe every steam engine should have a whistle.

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by Jimmyb » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:32 am

I have one fitted to my Fowler, and as described it needs a high pressure. I understand the optimum recommended operating pressure for the whistle is 60 psi, and RH locos operate at 40 psi (maximum) so this is on the edge of the operating range, the pressure needs to be there to rid the whistle of water before it will operate.

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by 11thHour » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:49 am

Keith S wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:27 am
I ordered one from DJB engineering. They make a "resonator" style whistle, with a scale(ish) brass whistle to mount on the front of the cab, and a resonating chamber hidden inside the cab. It also comes with a valve and a "banjo" fitting that goes on the steam turret in the cab.
Hi Keith,

How close to the heat of the boiler is the resonator chamber positioned on your loco? Presumably the high pressure needed in the DJB system is not determined by the need to clear water, as in the direct whistle style?

Tim

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by sjrixon » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:45 pm

Thanks Keith..

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:24 pm

For what it is worth, my dear wife (MAM) has a made a Lady Ann kit. (not yet painted and details done)
We fitted a Slomo. (A must for us as you can shunt nicely and do nice steady soothing realistic speeds)
I spent a lot of time setting the valves and due the slop in the valve gear so I optimised the events for forward running.
We only got 25min run times.
We replaced the O ring in the safety valve as it was leaking constantly, it was crook and had lost its shape.
I fitted a Regner whistle with servo.
We lightup, set the loco in full forward gear with the train on the hook. We just wait and it just walks off when 10 psi is on the gauge, by the time it is out the siding onto the main it is 20 psi ,we can run it around with 12 axles on the hood around 800mm radius curves with the burner turned down on the brink of going out. Regular running times of 40 mins is possible. 35min is easy. The whistle is pathetic at 20 -30 psi. It needs 30 -40 psi.

Pics in here
https://www.flickr.com/photos/llewellyn ... 206320555/

In here is pics of and videos of MAM's Lady Ann and some mods to the reg for the whistle take off.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/llewellyn ... 4810620477

Christmas video
https://www.flickr.com/photos/llewellyn ... 810620477/
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by Tingewickmax » Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:16 am

The only steam powered whistle I ever knew that worked, in both cold and warm conditions, was a factory fitted one on a Roundhouse Vale of Rheidol I once owned. Perhaps one should ask them how they did it. And perhaps why they no longer seemingly do.

Bit left of field, some might even consider "heresy" - https://www.rcs-rc.com/pages/sound A clever bit of lateral thinking from a master of RC. Its created specifically to overcome common issues experienced with the steam powered veriety. Max

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by Keith S » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:45 pm

11thHour wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:49 am
Hi Keith,

How close to the heat of the boiler is the resonator chamber positioned on your loco? Presumably the high pressure needed in the DJB system is not determined by the need to clear water, as in the direct whistle style?

Tim
Hello Tim,

The visible part of the whistle slides into the resonator, which is mounted on the inside of the cab front sheet. The "resonator" lies right along the boiler inside the cab, so it gets pretty hot. There is a small hole in the resonator that allows condensate to blow out. It needs to be hot in order to function properly, but I think the pressure is needed to make a loud enough sound, rather than clear condensate, although it is necessary to wait for the thing to heat up a bit so that condensate doesn't choke it.

I've noticed it can be adjusted somewhat for pressure by loosening a small grub-screw on the outside of the whistle, and thus being able to adjust the size of the orifice and windway.

Really the "bangham" style whistle is a clever trick. It's really a reasonable-sized whistle disguised as a tiny one by having (to use whistle or flute terminology) the flue, voice-hole and labium mounted vertically with a dummy bore on the outside of the cab, while the REAL bore (resonator) is a sensible size and hides in plain sight inside the cab, painted black and either curving down the side of the boiler or lying flat on top of it. Here's a link to a video I made when I first installed one on a Roundhouse "Billy":

https://youtu.be/EOf3pw4sxkk

In the video you can also hear the continuous fizzing of the safety-valve, which never seems to seat correctly.

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by 11thHour » Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:08 am

[/quote]

Here's a link to a video I made when I first installed one on a Roundhouse "Billy":

https://youtu.be/EOf3pw4sxkk

In the video you can also hear the continuous fizzing of the safety-valve, which never seems to seat correctly.
[/quote]

Hi Keith,
Thanks for the detailed reply. Enjoyed the video, that really is a superior tone whistle🙂 I will google to see if there is more info out there. Thinking on the subject, tea kettle whistles vary greatly with pressure.

I went back and looked at the construction video of Omingmak ,is it my imagination, or does the safety valve behave better then? Perhaps the difference is in more modern recording devices 😁

Tim

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Keith S
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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by Keith S » Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:01 am

11thHour wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:08 am

I went back and looked at the construction video of Omingmak ,is it my imagination, or does the safety valve behave better then? Perhaps the difference is in more modern recording devices 😁

Tim
I think the valve may have behaved a little better when it was brand-new, but also it can be silenced by giving the stem a light tap. It pretty much stays steam-tight until the first time it pops off, and afterwards it doesn't seat fully unless one gives it the aforementioned little tap. After a while I couldn't be bothered so I just let it do what it wants now.

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by Lonsdaler » Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:24 pm

Keith S wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:01 am
11thHour wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:08 am

I went back and looked at the construction video of Omingmak ,is it my imagination, or does the safety valve behave better then? Perhaps the difference is in more modern recording devices 😁

Tim
I think the valve may have behaved a little better when it was brand-new, but also it can be silenced by giving the stem a light tap. It pretty much stays steam-tight until the first time it pops off, and afterwards it doesn't seat fully unless one gives it the aforementioned little tap. After a while I couldn't be bothered so I just let it do what it wants now.
Hi Keith,
Have you tried descaling the valve?
Phil

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by Keith S » Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:21 am

Lonsdaler wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:24 pm
Hi Keith,
Have you tried descaling the valve?
You know, I hadn't thought of that! Good idea.

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Re: Operating a new Roundhouse Lady Anne

Post by Jimmyb » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:04 pm

Keith S wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:45 pm In the video you can also hear the continuous fizzing of the safety-valve, which never seems to seat correctly.
My RH Fowler less than 18 months old weeps steam from the valve from about 20 psi, even before it has blown off, so definitely seems to be a a RH problem

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