Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

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Lonsdaler
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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by Lonsdaler » Mon May 31, 2021 10:36 pm

ge_rik wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 10:17 pm
Lonsdaler wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 10:05 pm If ever you want a little trip out, get yourself over to Montgomery, and spend a morning in Bunners Hardware. It is a hardware store as they used to be, and stocks everything you never knew you needed :lol:
We make it a regular trip when we visit friends in Shropshire.
Now that sounds like fun :lol: ...... Not sure the missus would agree, though :dontknow:

Rik
Well my wife loves it as much as I do, as they sell all kinds of kitchenware as well as garden ornaments/tools etc. In fact, she usually comes away with more then me! :lol:
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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by TonyW » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:18 pm

ge_rik wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 10:15 pm
TonyW wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 7:04 pm
ge_rik wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 3:41 pm... superglues ...
No such thing.
:?:
Neither super, or glue.

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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by ge_rik » Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:30 pm

TonyW wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:18 pm
ge_rik wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 10:15 pm
TonyW wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 7:04 pm
No such thing.
:?:
Neither super, or glue.
Well. It works for me. Not sure how I'd glue my 3D printed PLA models together without it. And the swing bridge I constructed from uPVC trim and stuck together with Superglue in 2009 is still holding up well, apart from when I kicked it with my Welly while stepping over it - and even then the plastic broke rather than the glue bonded joints.
https://riksrailway.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... ridge.html

I think it's like most things, a lot depends on the quality of the glue. I use the thick industrial strength stuff which the chaps who do soffits and fascias use. A lot of the thin stuff from pound shops is, as you say, neither super nor glue .... 🙄

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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by TonyW » Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:38 pm

ge_rik wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:30 pmA lot of the thin stuff from pound shops is, as you say, neither super nor glue ....
I remember when SG first appeared. Early 1970s, I think. It was great. It would stick anything to anything and let off smoke as it dried. When I worked in London we glued a 50p coin to the pavement outside the office. Many sides were split as we watched hapless pedestrians try to pick it up. I think it was there for a week before somebody managed to shift it.

And then people started gluing themselves together with it. It has not been the same since.

Perhaps the stuff you use is OK, but the stuff I see is the "10 bottles for a quid" stuff as I try to clean up a brass loco body where solder has proved too much of a challenge and SG has been used instead. A 16mm Association "Victory" is on my bench at the moment having been assembled in this way. It doesn't work.
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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by ge_rik » Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:45 pm

I don't know if it's me or what, but I've noticed that epoxy doesn't seem to be what it was. I can remember Araldite being really effective when I was a teenager (50+ year ago), but whether it's no longer what it was or I'm viewing the past through rose tinted specs ....?

I bought a secondhand IP Engineering whitemetal Plate Frame Simplex which someone had Araldited together - and it just fell apart. I cleaned it up and reassembled it with low melt solder (my first experience with it), and the difference is remarkable. Solid as a rock - and I'll admit my soldering is not the world's best!

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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by philipy » Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:49 pm

ge_rik wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:30 pm Not sure how I'd glue my 3D printed PLA models together without it.
Simple!
PlasticWeld works perfectly on PLA, I never use anything else, and is a lot less stressful than keeping SG from where it isn't supposed to be.
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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by Old Man Aaron » Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:57 am

TonyW wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:38 pm A 16mm Association "Victory" is on my bench at the moment having been assembled in this way. It doesn't work.
Too rare and nice an loco, to be abused that way. Send it down here, I can provide a loving home for it among fellow sugar engines. ;) :roll:
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Aaron - Scum Class Works

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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by ge_rik » Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:35 am

philipy wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:49 pm
Simple!
PlasticWeld works perfectly on PLA, I never use anything else, and is a lot less stressful than keeping SG from where it isn't supposed to be.
Thanks. Is that a normal styrene solvent? I tried one of my styrene solvents and nothing happened.

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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by Tingewickmax » Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:35 am

ge_rik wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:45 pm I don't know if it's me or what, but I've noticed that epoxy doesn't seem to be what it was. I can remember Araldite being really effective when I was a teenager (50+ year ago), but whether it's no longer what it was or I'm viewing the past through rose tinted specs ....?

I bought a secondhand IP Engineering whitemetal Plate Frame Simplex which someone had Araldited together - and it just fell apart. I cleaned it up and reassembled it with low melt solder (my first experience with it), and the difference is remarkable. Solid as a rock - and I'll admit my soldering is not the world's best!

Rik
I mentioned on another forum where you have posted this topic Rik that indeed regular epoxy two pack adhesives are not failure proof, especially with age. I have found, irrespective of make,that after about 10 years in a normal environment they will develop a rubber like consistency and lose their ability to bond. That is not to say there are types that will not fail over longer periods or in testing environments.

I think there is a general risk to misapply adhesive products, and other things, based on empirical data alone. I.E. "I use it and am happy with it". That's the problem with "hobby" use, most of the time the products we use were not made for our specific chosen applications. We tend co-opt something that will give us the results near to what we want but not the ideal.

As to soldering white metal, brass/copper and some other metals - every time with the correct preparation fluxes and materials. Would not do it any other way, if I can help it ;) Same with soluble plastics, use the right solvent to bond, but sometimes reinforce. General purpose epoxies and cyanoacrylates have their uses, they are simple and often offer a quick and are easy to use but rarely totally adequate and often misapplied. Max

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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by SimonWood » Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:10 am

ge_rik wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:35 am Is that a normal styrene solvent? I tried one of my styrene solvents and nothing happened.
It's dichloromethane/methylene chloride, which I have started using for PLA also thanks to Philip's advice. It is, in my view, far superior to cyanoacrylate being easier to use and providing a far strong (welded) bond - just like acetone with ABS. However it is also somewhat hazardous and possibly carcinogenic, and being more concerned about my health than how my models stick together I take the precaution of only using it outside... which means on rainy days I still stick my PLA stuff together with superglue!

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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by philipy » Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:42 am

SimonWood wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:10 am

It's dichloromethane/methylene chloride, which I have started using for PLA also thanks to Philip's advice.
Unfortunately, unless you have professional access to it, dichloromethane itself has been 'elf 'n safteed' and is no longer on sale to Joe Public. However Plasticweld is available from EMA (www.ema-models.co.uk) in modellers sized bottles (50mml?) or 500ml cans. The small bottles are fairly widely available on ebay, Amazon and some model shops.
Philip

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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by Jimmyb » Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:01 pm

SimonWood wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:10 am
ge_rik wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:35 am Is that a normal styrene solvent? I tried one of my styrene solvents and nothing happened.
It's dichloromethane/methylene chloride, which I have started using for PLA also thanks to Philip's advice. It is, in my view, far superior to cyanoacrylate being easier to use and providing a far strong (welded) bond - just like acetone with ABS. However it is also somewhat hazardous and possibly carcinogenic, and being more concerned about my health than how my models stick together I take the precaution of only using it outside... which means on rainy days I still stick my PLA stuff together with superglue!
Is this what was called Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK), but had a name change due to change of naming protocol.

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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by GTB » Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:00 pm

Jimmyb wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:01 pm Is this what was called Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK), but had a name change due to change of naming protocol.
No. They are two very different substances.

MEK or Methyl Ethyl Ketone are common names for a substance known to chemists as 2-Butanone. Methylene Chloride or DCM are common names for what is known as Dichloromethane. Plastic Weld is a mixture of the two, unless the formula has changed again.

I use 2-Butanone for polystyrene and used to use the old formula of Plastruct Plastic Weld for ABS. I changed to Tetrahydrofuran (THF) for ABS, as the local shops stopped selling Plastic Weld years ago. My local one got tired of it drying out on the shelf before he could sell it......

I used to get THF from a local hobby supplier under the name Tetra, but he closed down a couple of years ago, so I now use 'Mr. Cement Deluxe' for ABS. This is a Japanese product from a company called Mr. Hobby and is a mixture of MEK and Ethyl Acetate. Seems to work OK on ABS, but I've no idea if it would work on PLA.

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by DonW » Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:21 pm

I find Hafixs very good keep in the fridge though. Marion wanted something fixing and that did the trick so I am allowed to keep it in the fridge since then.

Don

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Re: Double sided sticky pads which actually work?!

Post by Lonsdaler » Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:30 pm

Jimmyb wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:01 pm
Is this what was called Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK), but had a name change due to change of naming protocol.
It's known now as Butanone, although still available on Amazon as MEK.

Edit: Sorry - cross posted with Graeme (GTB), who has given a more complete answer! :salute:
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