Transmitter/receiver compatibility

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Lez1
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Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by Lez1 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:04 am

Your thoughts please; I've just dipped my toe in the water of radio control and would appreciate a bit of help.

Is it possible to mix and match transmitters and receivers from different manufacturers (assuming they all use 2.4GHz) or should I stick with one system?

Thank you.
Les.

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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by ge_rik » Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:34 am

Hi Les
Welcome to the forum

The answer is No (ish)

The problem is is that everyone has developed their own software, so JR/Specktrum use DSM2, Futaba uses FAAST (Futaba Advanced Spread Spectrum Technology), Airtronics uses FHSS and Hitec uses AFHSS. Neither will work with each other, so you're stuck with only buying that specific brand.

However, you can buy some products which are compatible with other brands. For example, Deltang uses DSM2 and so is compatible with JR/Spektrum to some extent. But receivers with Deltang's Selecta function won't work with other transmitters, except with a bit of tweaking.

So, generally, you're safest sticking with one brand.

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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by Lez1 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:18 am

Thanks for the welcome.

Yes, I rather thought that would be the answer but hoped there would be some sort of compatibility.

Regards,
Les.

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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by Jimmyb » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:18 pm

As Rik says it is No ish, as some brands are compatible with others. The issue always is once you have your first Tx, then you are going to buy the same brand Rxs to match, and it could be expensive if you don't like them, or their parts become scarce.
Two important factors (IMHO) is size of Rx (and if it has a build in ESC) and the Size/Type of Tx, so a bit of investigation, then ask some more questions :)

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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by Lez1 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:40 am

'and it could be expensive.'

Thanks Jimmyb, that line sums up G scale garden railways :D

I think a bit more research is in order but it's fun all the same.

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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by philipy » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:41 am

Lez1 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:40 am

I think a bit more research is in order
Well, I think many, if not most, on here would suggest that you look seriously at the Deltang range. Designed for trains not aircraft or boats, with the potential for controlling up to 12 models from one Tx and with a wide range of Rx outputs giving the potential ability for many options.
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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by TonyW » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:13 am

philipy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:41 amWell, I think many, if not most, on here would suggest that you look seriously at the Deltang range....
Many, many locomotives have been across my workbench in the last 19 years, and I have yet to encounter my first Deltang installation.
Last edited by TonyW on Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by BertieB » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:07 am

Jimmyb wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:18 pm “...The issue always is once you have your first Tx, then you are going to buy the same brand Rxs to match...”
Yeah. I tried wifi-based Loco Remote for my most recent loco, only because no Deltang receivers were available at the time — but I would certainly recommend it and will use it again.

And you don’t need to buy a transmitter for it — you can use an old smart phone (without a SIM card, as I have), touch-screen iPod (works well), tablet or whatever portable wifi device you might have floating about, to log-on to the installed ‘receiver’ and control it via your browser. There’s a simple web page interface. It’s cool.

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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by Jimmyb » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:45 am

BertieB wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:07 am
Jimmyb wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:18 pm “...The issue always is once you have your first Tx, then you are going to buy the same brand Rxs to match...”
Yeah. I tried wifi-based Loco Remote for my most recent loco, only because no Deltang receivers were available at the time — but I would certainly recommend it and will use it again.

And you don’t need to buy a transmitter for it — you can use an old smart phone (without a SIM card, as I have), touch-screen iPod (works well), tablet or whatever portable wifi device you might have floating about, to log-on to the installed ‘receiver’ and control it via your browser. There’s a simple web page interface. It’s cool.
Old smart phone floating about, interesting thought, I have the one I use, and that is it, and with a second hand value of £100.00 when I upgrade, it becomes an expensive Tx :)

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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by -steves- » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:56 am

Everyone I know uses Deltang or some form of it, be it marked up as Yatton, Chuffed 2 Bits, Micron RC, RC Trains or what ever else is using it's own badge. I also know a few who have tried LocoRemote and none of them have got on with it for various reasons, like too fiddly, not techy enough to change wi-fi networks for every change of loco, lack of quick change settings, refusing to use their ??? of pounds worth of phone or tablet in fear of dropping it in the garden or in a hard floor room. Without being funny this hobby "tends" to be the "more seasoned" individual who are not always that techie and quite often don't want to be.

Deltang IMHO is the best you can get, however, the RX's sell out extremely fast and production of the most useful range for us is ceasing at the end of this year due to not being able to get one of the components anymore. The great news is that Micron RC are looking to produce their own range which will be 100% compatible with Deltang TX's and allow bigger voltages / amperages than the current range on offer.

Just my personal experience and opinion of course :thumbup:
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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by BertieB » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:26 am

Jimmyb wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:45 am “Old smart phone floating about, interesting thought...”
Point I was stumbling to make is that Loco Remote doesn’t require purchase of a dedicated piece of kit to function as a transmitter — you can just use your phone.

I would agree with Steves that Deltang offers more precise control and flexibility — when they’re available.

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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by SimonWood » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:00 pm

-steves- wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:56 am Without being funny this hobby "tends" to be the "more seasoned" individual who are not always that techie and quite often don't want to be.
For what it's worth, I'd consider myself to be techie enough when it comes to the wifi/IP protocol side of things to be fairly sure I could configure a LocoRemote. But going out in the garden is my getaway from all that... not that I don't enjoy problem solving on the railway, but for a change and relaxation it's more the kinds of problems that involve steam oil, gradients and back-to-backs that I want to engage with and less the kind that involves squinting at a screen figuring out settings. For that reason, even though LocoRemote is an attractively priced and cleverly devised system, I am very happy with Deltang, it generally just works and with a tactile interface I can even control it with my eyes closed (NB: not advisable for shunting, don't tell the RAIB.)

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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by -steves- » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:44 pm

SimonWood wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:00 pm
-steves- wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:56 am Without being funny this hobby "tends" to be the "more seasoned" individual who are not always that techie and quite often don't want to be.
For what it's worth, I'd consider myself to be techie enough when it comes to the wifi/IP protocol side of things to be fairly sure I could configure a LocoRemote. But going out in the garden is my getaway from all that...
I think many or even most on here would be ok with Wi-Fi networks. I come from a SAN, networking and server background so it's second nature, but my father at 92 is a little more difficult to convince, it was enough for him remembering to change the selecta function for a loco change and he doesn't care what network he is on, if anything doesn't work, he rings me :lol: As you quite rightly say, I too think part of this hobby is to get away from techie stuff when running loco's, excluding design and build, particularly 3D printing and the like, lol.
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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by SimonWood » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:19 pm

-steves- wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:44 pm ...excluding design and build, particularly 3D printing and the like, lol.
Very true - I was thinking about that when I wrote the post - I enjoy the tactile stuff when modelling too, but 3D printing was just too good to ignore, and I just got too drawn into it. (Blame Trevor for that! But it really is good fun and I can print stuff my 'regular' modelling skills are nowhere near good enough to achieve.)

Anyway I guess the wider point is there are a number of good options for RC and a lot of it comes down to preference in terms of the interface - touch screen, rotary knob, stick control etc. - and how simple/sophisticated your skills/tastes are in terms of setup/operation.

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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by ge_rik » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:38 am

I have no figures for saturation levels of Deltang equipment in the world of garden railways but can only pass on my own experiences.

Deltang gear came to my attention in 2013 when David was just beginning to adapt his gear for use in model trains. I quickly realised its potential for larger scale garden trains and trialled some of his early receivers as they were being developed. When demand rose David found he no longer had time to construct transmitters and so, in 2016, I set up RC Trains primarily to help with construction of transmitters. I had assumed it would just be a part time commitment, but within six months, even with no advertising or Show visits I found I was being inundated with orders. In the space of a year I made well over 200 transmitters and sold nearly 400 receivers - with around 150 customers and rising. Reluctantly, I sold the business on as it was overtaking my life - I was supposed to be retired, after all! And, of course, I was only one of several suppliers of Deltang equipment.

If my experience is any measure, then there must be a fair number of Deltang users out there and, as far as I can tell, they are very satisfied with the equipment. I've just had an email from a former customer asking if I can convert another two of his locos to Deltang RC. The problem now is that equipment is in short supply as the stock of the chips on which it is based is drying up.

As Steve says, Andy at Micron is developing a compatible replacement system and so it looks like it should have an assured future.

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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by GAP » Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:24 pm

I googled the protocol for the transmitter and receivers that I have (AFHDS) and came across this;
https://oscarliang.com/rc-protocols/ Current as of April 2021
It shows how much of a mish mash the protocols are.
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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by Jimmyb » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:23 am

GAP wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:24 pm I googled the protocol for the transmitter and receivers that I have (AFHDS) and came across this;
https://oscarliang.com/rc-protocols/ Current as of April 2021
It shows how much of a mish mash the protocols are.
WOW - far more than I can take in, in one sitting, but still very interesting, thank you for sharing.

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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by Lez1 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:02 am

As the OP for this discussion I feel I must tell you which way I've gone in the transmitter/receiver stakes.

Firstly, many thanks for your replies (all of them), I found them most interesting. I eventually decided on a 'start-up kit' from Yatton which has duly been fitted in one of my Stainz locos. The transmitter also controls the regulator on my live steam loco. Since then I've also managed to get hold of a Deltang RX 65 which is awaiting fitting.

The hardest thing I found is sourcing batteries to shoe-horn into these relatively small engines but that's for another thread!

Regards to all.
Les.

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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by -steves- » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:00 am

Lez1 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:02 am As the OP for this discussion I feel I must tell you which way I've gone in the transmitter/receiver stakes.

Firstly, many thanks for your replies (all of them), I found them most interesting. I eventually decided on a 'start-up kit' from Yatton which has duly been fitted in one of my Stainz locos. The transmitter also controls the regulator on my live steam loco. Since then I've also managed to get hold of a Deltang RX 65 which is awaiting fitting.

The hardest thing I found is sourcing batteries to shoe-horn into these relatively small engines but that's for another thread!

Regards to all.
Les.
Are you using Lithium Ion batteries at 4.2v each?
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Re: Transmitter/receiver compatibility

Post by Lez1 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:59 am

Steves wrote
Are you using Lithium Ion batteries at 4.2v each?
At the moment I'm using a LiPo battery pack recovered from a model quadcopter; it just about slides into the cab.

Les.

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