Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

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Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:37 am

Hello all,

I've had an R.C. fitted Accucraft Excelsior for some time now. Due to the incomplete state of the Charnwood Forest Light Railway I've had very little opportunity for running and virtually none in the last two years. In this time the loco batteries have run down. They are shrink wrapped together with a plug in lead running up into the cab. The loco came without a charger and I suspect that breaking the batteries out of the shrink wrap will be catastrophic in terms of reconnecting them for future use.

Any suggestions on what charger they should be connected to or how I might recharge them if I can't get hold of one please?

Andrew
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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:48 am

No info on the battery pack?

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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:42 pm

Hi Tom,

I guess some technical details would help in the diagnosis! I've taken the holder down down again and done my best to read the incredibly small print on the batteries (Why do they do that!). The batteries are Ni-MH 2.4v 2600mAh. They also say 'Standard charge - 260ma, Fast charge 4000ma. I tried adding a photo but it's too large. however.....

Whilst 'jiggling things about' I unearthed this connector. It's wired to the on off switch (I think) and then the battery pack. My money is on it being a charging connector.
connector.JPG
connector.JPG (466.73 KiB) Viewed 7242 times

Andrew
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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:54 pm

That is a JR/Hitec connection on that cable.

I use this charger with a cable harness that gives me a wide range of connectors for all different batteries:

https://www.componentshop.co.uk/intelli ... packs.html

https://www.componentshop.co.uk/multi-c ... plugs.html

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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by SVLR » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:45 pm

I use one of these for all my non Lipo packs (Fly RC also so have lots)
https://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/m ... der_02.jpg
It's great as there are multiple outputs and you can charge more than one thing at a time. The component shop charger is great also. Plus those charging leads recommended above are a real godsend.

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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:25 pm

Thanks all,

Tom,

Your suggested product is out of stock (just my luck!) In your opinion would this do the same job?

https://howesmodels.co.uk/product/nx83- ... s-charger/

SVLR,

Your suggestions looked fantastic but I'm not sure I'd have that much use for all those charging options. It's a fine piece of kit mind you.

All the best,

Andrew
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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:47 pm

How many batteries does your pack contain?

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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:31 pm

Hi Tom,

There are are four of them.

Andrew
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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:39 pm

Then that charger will do as it can charge 4 cells.

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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:25 pm

Hi Tom,

Thank you very much for your help. This forum has never failed to find a solution to my garden railway problems. You do a brilliant job keeping it all together.

Just one final question, would you expect to charge with the power switch 'on' or 'off'?

All the very best,

Andrew
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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:01 pm

You have a switch harness installed:

https://www.componentshop.co.uk/futaba- ... rness.html

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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:26 pm

That's the beast!

Thanks again Tom. Brilliant help and advice.
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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:35 pm

The battery pack may be dead given its lack of use so if it needs replacing use the site I mentioned. If they don't have exactly what you need on their website then they will build you a custom pack at a sensible price!

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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:00 am

More excellent advice. I'll keep my fingers crossed but I know what to do if that doesn't work now!

Thanks again Tom. If ever I get the chance I'll stand you a pint! :occasion5:

Andrew
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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by Soar Valley Light » Tue May 05, 2020 10:04 pm

Tom,

Thanks for the help and advice. Against all the odds the old batteries took a charge. If this blooming wind eases tomorrow I'll raise steam and give it a run.

Cheers,

Andrew
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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue May 05, 2020 10:27 pm

Be good to see it running!

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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by Soar Valley Light » Wed May 06, 2020 7:48 pm

Hello Tom,

I was hoping to treat you to a video clip of just that. I found time to steam her up this afternoon. Bearing in mind a wheel hasn't been turned in well over three years we got off to a good start. She ran very nicely, even if she did turn her nose up at some of the rougher bit's of my road! It was a new experience driving a loco with separate regulator and reverser controls. It was going so well I was planning a second steaming to record some video. I was getting the hang though when, halfway through the steaming, she suddenly sat down and refused to move. closer inspection revealed that the reverser was in mid gear and not responding to the controller. Once cool I ended up taking the body off and found what I think is a burnt out servo. It's close to the burner but the damage is on the opposite site (if it really is damage - it's the first time I've looked at one up close). I've had a chat with a friend about it and he suggested plugging it into the channel for the regulator control to see if it really is the servo. Unfortunately the advice came just as I was dishing up the evening meal so it will have to wait until tomorrow now. I did try to get a couple of pictures of the damage.
servo 1.JPG
servo 1.JPG (32.6 KiB) Viewed 6266 times
servo 1.JPG
servo 1.JPG (32.6 KiB) Viewed 6266 times
I'm not sure they are very clear but if you look where the wiring loom joints the servo body you can just make out that things seem to have been hot and the front right top corner of the server seems to have 'ballooned out' slightly.

Andrew
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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed May 06, 2020 8:45 pm

Your friend has made a good suggestion, try that to see if the servo is faulty.

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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging - the ongoing saga!

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sat May 09, 2020 11:49 am

Well, things have moved on, but not for the better. I’m afraid it’s a case of one step forward and one leap back! I tried swapping the servo’s over, the dud remained dud and the good one continued to work. I had a couple of new servo’s that came with the loco so I swapped the dud, switched back on and hey presto! We were back in business, all working. Steam was raised and a trial run began. The handset for this loco has very ‘floppy’ joysticks, particularly on the regulator channel. It has to be held continuously to keep it in the required position. This makes shooting any video footage a bit of a challenge but I did manage some. When I can remember how to do it, I’ll either upload it here of post a link to you tube. So far so good, but this was the end of the step forward.
The beginning of the leap backwards began when the reverser servo stopped working again. I continued the run on the regulator control alone, which appeared to continue working normally. Once out of steam I left the loco to cool and steamed my Ragleth. Old reliable chuffed away quite happily and I took the opportunity to tie the tourist saloon on to see how it coped with the new track (it’s the most ‘picky’ vehicle I’ve got, being a very long wheelbase four wheeled vehicle). All was going well until the servo on the reverser stopped working! I had the strongest feeling of deja-vu! I managed to set the regulator to match the reverser position and continue running. I must have hit the ‘sweet spot’ because it was probably the best slow speed run I’ve ever had, impressive when you take into account that, even on the ‘flat’ section of my line, curves and minor gradient changes make it’s almost essential to keep nudging the regulator one way or the other – or so I thought! I’ve had the Ragleth for 7 years, it’s only had about a dozen runs in that time and came to me second hand so I’ve no idea how long the batteries had been in there but I’d never changed them in all that time making it a fair bet they were the cause. So the second loco began cooling down for attention!
Meanwhile the Excelsior was cool. An inspection revealed no damage to the new servo that I could see from the cab. I switched the electrics back on and nothing….. nothing at all. Both servos were lifeless and the light on the magic box on the loco wasn’t lit. Given what had just happened with the Ragleth I wondered if the batteries had lost their charge very quickly, given their long period out of use without a charge. Suspecting I may need to replace them I decided to recharge them and see if there was enough life in them to test the servo’s. I also stripped the now cool Ragleth and removed the batteries from that too. I plugged the Excelsior into the charger and put a set of rechargeables that I use for the Christmas lights on charge for the Ragleth. (I’m not planning on putting up the Christmas lights any time soon!!!). When I went into the kitchen at about half past nine last night I noticed that the Excelsior was charged. I could resist seeing if there was any life. I switched on, reached over for the controller, got it out of its box, switched on and turned back to the loco. It all took no longer than it took you to read the last sentence, but to my horror there was smoke pouring from the cab off the wiring loom. One of the things I’d done when changing the servo was move the wiring round the cab door side of the oil filler to keep it as far from the burner as possible (ironically!) this put the plug coupler from the battery to the switch in the cab door way. I grabbed it to unplug it but it was hotter than I expected, the wiring was just on the point of melting and came away (stuck to my finger and thumb!). I’m not sure at what point I flicked the switch to ‘off’, I think I did it immediately I saw the smoke but I can’t be sure. However, the batteries were definitely disconnected now because one of the wires had parted. I could hear the batteries starting to fizz and there was still plenty of smoke from the wiring so I quickly shot the loco out onto the back yard and retired to a safe distance. The smoke was subsiding now but the batteries continued to fizz for a couple of minutes more. It was dark by this time and I wasn’t about to start investigations at that time of night so I threw a box over the loco and left it until this morning.

First job today was to try the Ragleth with the recharged batteries I’m pleased to say all was good there, everything came back to life. The excelsior was a sorry sight though. The battery plug coupler was completely melted and the wiring from it back towards the switch was melted, it had also heated up and melted the cables from the reverser servo and warmed up the cable from the regulator servo to the extent that the insulation was damaged in two places where it had been resting against an edge. I took the batteries out and they are clearly fried. I cut the battery lead at the end of the damage to release them. Clearly extensive work is going to be needed to recover for this situation.
Wiring damage.JPG
Wiring damage.JPG (30.85 KiB) Viewed 6244 times
My first question is whether there is any means of jointing a new connector onto the end of a cable. This would save the two servo’s and avoid the need to strip out the on/off switch from the bunker (which looks like it’s easy to remove and a complete so-and-so to put back). If not, it looks like a complete new electrical system will be required. I’m not sure I fancy the expense of that! What worries me more is the chance of it recurring, especially as I’ve got no idea what caused it in the first place. Any suggestions would be gratefully received, but please bear in mind that I’m a technical ‘numpty’, explanations in words of one syllable (at least technical words) will be the most useful for sure!
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Re: Accucraft Excelsior RC battery charging - the ongoing saga!

Post by GTB » Sat May 09, 2020 1:55 pm

Soar Valley Light wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 11:49 am My first question is whether there is any means of jointing a new connector onto the end of a cable. This would save the two servo’s and avoid the need to strip out the on/off switch from the bunker (which looks like it’s easy to remove and a complete so-and-so to put back). If not, it looks like a complete new electrical system will be required.
Hooley dooley...................... :shock:

Well, you just found out the hard way that rechargeable batteries have a high energy density and a low internal resistance. This means the only limit on the current delivered is the resistance of the wire, which rapidly turns into a heating element when shorted, until it melts and becomes a fuse.

The odds are that the wiring insulation was either already damaged, or was brittle and was damaged when you moved it around. There are a lot of sharp metal edges that get hot in little steam locos. Once the insulation breaks down and both battery wires are bridged by metal, bingo.

It could have been worse, NiMH cells get very hot when shorted and can go bang, but aren't particularly flammable. The fizzing noise was the electrolyte in the cell boiling and the steam escaping from the vent in the casing.

Yes, servo connectors can be replaced, but not easily. A good r/c shop will likely stock spares and if they have a repair service, the repairer will have the special crimper needed to wire the connectors. The crimper is expensive, so not really a DIY option. I have fitted JIS connectors to leads without using crimper, but it's a real pain in the nether regions..... :roll:

The biggest problem at present is that with the virus shutdowns there probably aren't any places open that can fit a plug for you.

To be honest if it was me, I'd probably rewire the loco, as the wiring is now suspect and other bits of electrickery may have suffered damage in the incident. The switch contacts may have been damaged by carrying the full current and the Rx and servo electronics may not be happy little campers either.

I have fitted a suitable size polyswitch fuse between the rechargeable battery and the switch in my r/c and battery electric models to reduce the likelihood of this type of incident.

Regards,
Graeme

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