Some questions about painting rolling stock

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CSL
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Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by CSL » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:09 pm

As I look at my existing locos and rolling stock, I can think of a multitude of painting jobs I'd like to do on them but can also see a load of pitfalls which could mean the end result is worse than what I started with...

1. What tapes can be used for masking without damaging the surface? Traditional masking tape usually seems to leave a bit of a rough edge. My local hardware shop has other masking tapes for interior decorating which claim to give crisp lines, but are they suitable for modelling?

2. I'd like to add some brush-paint detail to a newly-acquired model that has an all-over spray finish, apparently with a Halfords auto paint. Is water-based acrylic paint suitable, and what (if any) preparation of the existing paint surface is needed?

3. I have two ancient Mamod coaches - one has a very bad auto spray paint job complete with runs which I (mis)applied over the original red at least 25 years ago; the other has its original red paint but now has small rust patches on both bodysides and roof. How can I give them new paint finishes without dismantling them?

Honestly, the more I think about painting the less I seem to know!

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Peter Butler
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Re: Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:33 pm

From my own experience I can recommend Tamiya masking tape, which is available in various widths. If used on a painted surface for fine detailing it is best to allow the base coat a couple of days to set hard first before applying the tape. It leaves perfect lines without bleeding.
Acrylic paints can be used on sprayed surfaces, although it is advisable to use good quality paint with plenty of pigment and on a matt surface. If you have a gloss surface on which to work, perhaps a clear matt spray varnish before applying the acrylic paint would help. Allow to dry well before using the acrylic, then a final clear satin coat to seal it afterwards.
Sorry but I have no knowledge about Mamods so can't be of any use there.
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Re: Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by CSL » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:29 pm

Thanks for the tips, Peter.

In the case of my second question, the areas to be recoloured are rather small - not worth spraying, I would have thought (but then, what do I know?).

Is there brush-applied varnish to use instead? And is there a risk of it reacting badly with either the auto spray underneath or the acrylic paint I'm thinking of applying?

As it happens the paints I already have are Revell but they don't supply varnishes as far as I can tell (I would like to assume that within one supplier's range products would be compatible - probably wrong though!).

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Re: Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by IanC » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:48 pm

I agree with Peter and the use of masking tape. Tamiya is reckoned by most to be the best lining tape for our purposes. As Peter says make sure the paint has had plenty of time to harden as masking tape can pull of paint from underlying areas. This can also happen if the surface has not been properly prepared. By that I mean clean and grease free. Remove masking tape as soon as possible. This tends to avoid the ridge that can happen if the tape is left on too long.

I'm also with Peter on drying time. Most paints need to "gas off". This is especially true of enamels. The important thing is not to rush. To achieve a good finish takes time and preparation. I leave 5 - 10 days between coats. If painting over gloss paint rub down with fine wet and dry to give paint a "key".

For painting I try to stick with paints of the same type. i.e. keep to acrylic or enamel. Lots of thin coats are best. Again allow drying time between coats.

I'll leave it to others to talk about mamod and touching up metal coaches. If I were tackling the job I would probably opt to spray. This has the best chance of matching an existing spray finish, and with care paint can be feathered in to the existing paintwork to help with any discrepancy in matching the existing colour. Not all shades are the same!

I'd certainly finish off with a varnish of choice to protect the completed job.

Please let us know how you get on.
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Re: Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:12 pm

CSL wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:29 pm Thanks for the tips, Peter.

In the case of my second question, the areas to be recoloured are rather small - not worth spraying, I would have thought (but then, what do I know?).

Is there brush-applied varnish to use instead? And is there a risk of it reacting badly with either the auto spray underneath or the acrylic paint I'm thinking of applying?

**** Reply*** Again I can only speak from experience and without knowing what the original base paint is, it is difficult to answer..... however, most spray paints and varnishes are probably acrylic these days so should be safe to use. There are brush-applied varnishes available but probably no cheaper than a spray can and giving a less satisfactory finish.

As it happens the paints I already have are Revell but they don't supply varnishes as far as I can tell (I would like to assume that within one supplier's range products would be compatible - probably wrong though!).

*** Reply*** Sorry again but no experience of Revell paints. A test piece of your paint on a similar surface with a coat of your chosen varnish might be a good idea?
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Re: Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by CSL » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:40 am

IanC wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:48 pm I'll leave it to others to talk about mamod and touching up metal coaches. If I were tackling the job I would probably opt to spray. This has the best chance of matching an existing spray finish, and with care paint can be feathered in to the existing paintwork to help with any discrepancy in matching the existing colour. Not all shades are the same!
Oops - I was probably unclear. For the Mamod coaches I would use spray paint. My question was really meant to be about how to prepare a surface that is rusted and/or very badly overpainted to give a good finish.

Not really bothered about colour matching as I want to repaint the whole of the exterior (the interior metal can stay in the original red as it looks far too fiddly to repaint by any method!).

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Re: Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by CSL » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:47 am

IanC wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:48 pm If painting over gloss paint rub down with fine wet and dry to give paint a "key".
Is this in addition to or instead of the matt varnish suggested by Peter? (For painting over a sprayed auto paint finish with an acrylic.)

I must sound like such a novice! But then again, I pretty much am.

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Re: Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by IanC » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:16 pm

CSL wrote: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:47 am
IanC wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:48 pm If painting over gloss paint rub down with fine wet and dry to give paint a "key".
Is this in addition to or instead of the matt varnish suggested by Peter? (For painting over a sprayed auto paint finish with an acrylic.)

I must sound like such a novice! But then again, I pretty much am.
CSL wrote: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:40 am
IanC wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:48 pm I'll leave it to others to talk about mamod and touching up metal coaches. If I were tackling the job I would probably opt to spray. This has the best chance of matching an existing spray finish, and with care paint can be feathered in to the existing paintwork to help with any discrepancy in matching the existing colour. Not all shades are the same!
Oops - I was probably unclear. For the Mamod coaches I would use spray paint. My question was really meant to be about how to prepare a surface that is rusted and/or very badly overpainted to give a good finish.

Not really bothered about colour matching as I want to repaint the whole of the exterior (the interior metal can stay in the original red as it looks far too fiddly to repaint by any method!).
Ah, I see what you're trying to do. I've never repainted a rusted vehicle before, but my suggested steps would be

1. Remove the rust. The method involved will depend on how much the rust has taken hold. Make sure the surface to be painted is smooth. This may involve sanding the existing paintwork as well as the rust. Back to bare metal would be best
2. Prime with an etching primer or acid etch.
3. Apply an undercoat if necessary. Some colours are translucent.
4. Apply top coat.
5. If decals and transfers are to be applied if the top coat is not gloss apply a gloss varnish.
6 After any decals decoration has been applied seal with a varnish of your choice.

I would lightly rub down between each coat just enough to give the next coat a key with wet and dry 1500 grade, clean and degrease between coats and allow plenty of drying time.

There may be other ways, but this is how I would go about it. Hope it helps.
Ian

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Re: Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by CSL » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:33 pm

Many thanks for the further advice.

I'd love to post my progress but, er, there isn't any. Back to work today and cold reality suggests it'll be a while.

But still keen to learn if anyone else would like to make suggestions!

And I have at least found where I can easily get hold of Tamiya masking tape.

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Re: Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by IanC » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:42 pm

Don't worry about the lack of progress. I'm a contender for the world's slowest!
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Re: Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by FWLR » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:49 am

You can't go wrong with Peter's advice. He is a master at modelling and some of his painting on his stock is actually really superb. My one input would be, Take your time and don't rush it. Also do any prepping and any painting in a warm environment and has dust free as possible. I am sure you will end up with some brilliant work when you do start. :thumbright:

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Re: Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by Andrew » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:14 pm

I repainted a rusty Mamod brake van about 15 years ago, the one that appears in many of the photos in my (WH)WHR thread. As I recall I stripped much of it back with Nitromors then sprayed it with car primer (I hadn't heard of etch primer back then!) before adding an enamel top coat - from a Humbrol can, I think.

Possibly not the best method, but it's held up pretty well I think. It's rusty again now after spending too much time living in the damp confines on Trefechan tunnel , so it'll be receiving the same treatment again soon-ish...

Cheers,

Andrew.

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Re: Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by CSL » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:45 pm

Andrew wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:14 pm I repainted a rusty Mamod brake van about 15 years ago, the one that appears in many of the photos in my (WH)WHR thread. As I recall I stripped much of it back with Nitromors then sprayed it with car primer (I hadn't heard of etch primer back then!) before adding an enamel top coat - from a Humbrol can, I think.
Thanks for this experience. I take it you didn't dismantle the van for a Nitromors bath (which I definitely don't want to do!); did you apply it by brush and did it get all the paint off?

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Re: Some questions about painting rolling stock

Post by Andrew » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:27 am

Hello again - sorry for the delayed response!

I'm afraid I don't really remember, but I know I didn't dismantle and bathe it... My guess is that I brushed the paint stripper onto the bad bits and stripped those ( scrubbing away with an old toothbrush rings a bell....) but left anywhere where the paint was ok, just giving it all a light sanding to smooth it down and provide a key for the new paint. I think I took all the paint off the roof, but I don't recall the whole body going back to bare metal. Apologies in advance if this is duff advice!

Good luck with it,

Andrew
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