Overhead belt pulley wheels

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Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by ge_rik » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:53 pm

I've reached the stage where I want to construct the overhead pulley system for my sawmill.

Does anyone know a source for spoked pulley wheels in our scale suitable for overhead pulley systems? They tend to have a wide flat running surface for a belt rather than a groove for a rope or rubber band. The nearest thing I've found so far are spoked model car wheels which are sort of OK but not quite right.

Rik
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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by ge_rik » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:57 pm

This is the sort of thing I'm after. I think the technical term is 'line shaft.

https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip ... o-the.html

Rik
Last edited by ge_rik on Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by ge_rik » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:46 pm

BTW when I was searching for prototype images, I came across this wonderful 0 scale (I think) model of an Aussie sawmill

http://www.modvid.com.au/html/body_stev ... wmill.html

There's a great picture of his line shafts and pulleys about 3/4 of the way down the page. I'm wondering if the pulleys he used would be suiable for 16mm scale, if only I could find out where he got them.

John Robinson's sawmill (also from Oz), as featured in Garden Rail a year or so ago was another source of inspiration.

http://www.gardenrailwayclub.com/announ ... -s-sawmill

Though he didn't use overhead lay shafts.

Rik
Last edited by ge_rik on Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by RylstonLight » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:01 pm

Hi, this may not be the answer you are looking for.

I wanted a redundant lineshaft in the Rylston Light's workshop. As this was originally intended as a simple stage for photographing models I had a "low fidelity" approach to background detail on the basis it is mainly blurred. I sort of lost the way and added more and more detail but a lot of the original background is still a bit rough and ready. I tend to avoid photographing them directly. But this is the RLR lineshaft:
lineshaft detail.png
lineshaft detail.png (333.46 KiB) Viewed 6353 times
The belt pulley (sans belts as it is supposed to be redundant but left in situ) is actually a curved spoke wheel with the flange removed. These were 3 supplied by Ron Grant many years ago (I seem to remember). He would sometimes supply a single extra wheel in an order for no apparent reason! I accumulated 3, but never the 4th that would have allowed me to use them conventionally. Wasn't there a song long ago "Three wheels on my wagon but I'm still rolling along"? For younger members google it and you will realise that not all music from the sixties was golden.

But back to the plot:

I turned the flanges down on a mini-lathe, but if you don't have access then plastic wheels, such as from Slaters or Cambrian, should file down easily. Of course I havn't solved a running line-shaft; from your previous projects I'm confident you will :-))

As an aside the industrial light-shade next to it is the tip of a ballpoint pen pushed through a cup washer! I don't normally allow photographs of those to be seen too clearly in public either!

Andy S.
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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by ge_rik » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:06 pm

Thanks Andy. That looks like a good solution, though it would be good to have different diameter wheels. Maybe I could mix 0 scale wheels with 16mm scale.

As much as I would like to have it operational, at this stage I would be more than happy for it to be a static model.

Rik
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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by LNR » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:40 pm

A small Mamod flywheel scales out about 2 1/2 ft diam. Rik. Certainly about the size that would drive the lineshaft.
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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by Busted Bricks » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:48 pm

How about building them up from layers of laser cut parts? That would probably be my approach but then I have the lasers...

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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by metalmuncher » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:31 pm

Busted Bricks wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:48 pm That would probably be my approach but then I have the lasers...
A 3D printer is another tool that comes in handy for low quantities of customised detail parts like this, but has the same problem of machine availability as a laser cutter...

You could use the prints for lost plastic casting into aluminium for something a bit stronger for full operation. I've never tried the method myself though, and I would be worried about thin spokes not fully forming in this instance.

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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by philipy » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:27 am

Rik,
What sort of diameters are you after?
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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by GTB » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:02 am

ge_rik wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:46 pm BTW when I was searching for prototype images, I came across this wonderful 0 scale (I think) model of an Aussie sawmill
The model was made in Oz, but is a model of a North American Mill. Aust. mills didn't have a log pond.

John Robinson is from the offshore islands, they don't like being called Australians......... ;) Kiwi mills were similar to Aust mills though, as there was interchange between the timber companies in both countries.

This photo shows a typical small Aust. bush mill from the early 1900s. Not the sort of thing you'd see in the UK I'd imagine.

https://www.libraries.noosa.qld.gov.au/ ... 5163497306

The photo on this link shows the interior of a typical small Aust. bush mill before WW1. The size would be suitable for a model, though I'm not sure how typical it would be of UK practice. Except for early mills, Aust. sawmills were based more on US practice.

https://collections.museumvictoria.com.au/items/768032

For belt pulleys I'd also be inclined to use spoked plastic wheels with the flanges removed to give a flat surface for the belt. Maybe some of Peter Binnie's for the larger ones and O scale spoked wheel centres for the small ones.


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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:11 pm

I think I have the same wheels mentioned?

20180307_130716-01.jpeg
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20180307_130757_002-01.jpeg
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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by RylstonLight » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:24 pm

Can’t be the same ones.

I’ve never seen them in pairs :lol:
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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:26 pm

I have 4 axles worth, honest!

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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by ge_rik » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:46 pm

philipy wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:27 am Rik,
What sort of diameters are you after?
Hi Philip
Not really sure. I suppose anywhere between 10mm and 50mm diameter. I'm only going to give a representation of the system.

Rik
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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by ge_rik » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:53 pm

Thanks for the various suggestions, guys. I looked for Mamod flywheels and they seem to be about £10 - £15 each. I might use one for the mill engine but it would work out pricey to use them for the line shaft.

The wagon wheels are a really good idea. Will explore that. Those curly spoked wheels look brilliant.

My apologies to our antipodean bretheren. No slur intended. I'll try much harder to make sure I get the countries of origin correct. I'd hate to upset anyone, particularly as John R was good enough to send me some of the photos he took of the sawmill he used as the basis for his excellent model. :oops: :oops:

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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by philipy » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:07 pm

Rik,
A slight tangent, but this might have some helpful detail for you.

http://www.combemill.co.uk/wp-content/u ... nes_v1.pdf
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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by metalmuncher » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:57 pm

Mostly as an exercise in learning CAD, I've drawn up a parametric pulley in Autodesk Fusion 360.

The model is only for half a pulley, you would need two 3d prints to make a complete pulley, but this way avoids overhangs. It does have a crown and draft angles so I guess in theory it could be used as a pattern for casting too.

Pretty much everything is a parameter that can be changed and the model automatically rebuilds with the new dimensions:
params.PNG
params.PNG (90.02 KiB) Viewed 4241 times
So by default you get a 6 spoke 25mm dia pulley:
6spoke25mm.PNG
6spoke25mm.PNG (162.13 KiB) Viewed 4241 times
IMG_20180307_180655.jpg
IMG_20180307_180655.jpg (52.3 KiB) Viewed 4241 times
But by changing a few numbers you can get an 8 spoke 35mm, or whatever you want. Just have to be a bit careful in allowing enough room for the fillets between spokes.
8spoke35mm.PNG
8spoke35mm.PNG (176.24 KiB) Viewed 4241 times
You can download the fusion 360 file and an .stl for the 6 spoke 25mm one here. Fusion 360 is free for hobbyists and small companies, but is a bit of a hassle to set up with logins and such, so if anyone wants a couple of .stl files exporting so they can print one themselves or send off to another company, just give me the dimensions and I'll send an .stl over. :)

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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by LNR » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:22 am

ge_rik wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:53 pm My apologies to our antipodean bretheren. No slur intended.
"She'll be right Mate!" we'll forgive you. I can't seem to find me hat with the little corks on strings around it. or I'd be wearing it now. :lol: ;)
Grant.
PS had no idea Mamod flywheels cost that much :shock:

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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by ge_rik » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:00 am

metalmuncher wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:57 pm Mostly as an exercise in learning CAD, I've drawn up a parametric pulley in Autodesk Fusion 360.

The model is only for half a pulley, you would need two 3d prints to make a complete pulley, but this way avoids overhangs. It does have a crown and draft angles so I guess in theory it could be used as a pattern for casting too.

Pretty much everything is a parameter that can be changed and the model automatically rebuilds with the new dimensions:
params.PNG

So by default you get a 6 spoke 25mm dia pulley:
6spoke25mm.PNG
IMG_20180307_180655.jpg

But by changing a few numbers you can get an 8 spoke 35mm, or whatever you want. Just have to be a bit careful in allowing enough room for the fillets between spokes.
8spoke35mm.PNG

You can download the fusion 360 file and an .stl for the 6 spoke 25mm one here. Fusion 360 is free for hobbyists and small companies, but is a bit of a hassle to set up with logins and such, so if anyone wants a couple of .stl files exporting so they can print one themselves or send off to another company, just give me the dimensions and I'll send an .stl over. :)
Blimey, that's good. Philipy has offered to print them for me, I just need to work out what sizes I need.

I'll echo what Rod and I have said previously. The folk who frequent this forum are the best (in the world, it would seem - North or South of the equator - East or West of the Atlantic!).

Rik
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Re: Overhead belt pulley wheels

Post by LNR » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:18 am

ge_rik wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:00 am North or South of the equator - East or West of the Atlantic!)
Down here in Australia, that's what's known as "covering your a??e.
Good on you Rik.
Grant.
PS what a terrific link posted by Philip, shall file that away.

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