Intentional bumps

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CSL
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Re: Intentional bumps

Post by CSL » Mon May 21, 2018 7:39 am

Tom,

It's the "without the rocket effect" bit that's tricky!

After yesterday afternoon I'm having to eat my words about the drag race being on the straight section of track. I loaded up the Bertie with the longest train I can muster excluding the Mamod loco (six 4-wheel vehicles) and ran it in the direction that, as I thought, presents less risk of overspeed derailment.

Rather gratifyingly it developed a tendency to stop at the station and restart (although it usually overshot by a couple of vehicle lengths - I ought to put the carriages at the rear of the formation!).

And, er, I had an overspeed derailment... But what was noteworthy was that it didn't involve the straight section at all - it's virtually continuous curves right/left/right/left from the stopping point to the, ahem, derailment location.

Basically I'm going to have to be more alert to fast running and duration of stall (since the longer it waits, the more the rocket effect) in future! But the main thing is that manual control steam locos are rather unpredictable... which is actually how I like it.

(I'm jealous of your 41-minute run, by the way. I had a go at maximising run time with the Bertie on rollers, steam and gas regulators as low as I dared and accepting stops and starts: 35 minutes from first wheel turn to last. But I note from your new thread that you're considering hacking your Millie about a bit, which makes you a braver and probably better Roundhouse owner than me!)

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Re: Intentional bumps

Post by Tom the blacksmith » Mon May 21, 2018 8:33 pm

Just remember CSL that the Millie doesn't have a fire tube through the boiler so it can hold more water than Berti's boiler. I think getting 35min out of your Berti is remarkable!

Would love to see a video of your track at some point, especially with a stop ;) . I've searched your posts but haven't found anything. I too like the shoot form hip style of manual control, when you see it running at a good scale speed with everything set spot on, its pretty good.

As for bodywork, I'm going to concentrate on getting a track first but I'm just fishing for ideas.

Tom

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Re: Intentional bumps

Post by CSL » Wed May 23, 2018 1:45 pm

Tom,

Good point about the larger boiler capacity of the Millie - I'd forgotten that. Presumaby it has a larger gas tank to match?

To be clear, I got 35 minutes with the Bertie sitting on rollers and not on the track, but I have got 30 minutes running round the circuit pulling one wagon and a cold Mamod; guess I can be happy with that since the manual says it's designed for 25 - so 20% extra time.

You're right that I haven't posted photos or videos as yet - maybe some time. My garden railway isn't really up to the standard of some here (especially my "mini-Glenfinnan" viaduct)...

Videoing station stops is tricky since (a) you never know in advance if it's going to happen and (b) there's always the risk that if it does happen I need to be the other end to catch the resulting "rocket train" before it hits *that* bend! (One thing that does impress is the power of the Bertie compared to the Mamod, felt through your hand on a carriage roof as you try to hold back a speeding train!)

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Re: Intentional bumps

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed May 23, 2018 2:03 pm

We don't have a video 'standard' so you shouldn't feel you cannot post your content.

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Re: Intentional bumps

Post by Tom the blacksmith » Wed May 23, 2018 8:16 pm

CSL wrote: Wed May 23, 2018 1:45 pm Videoing station stops is tricky
I know CSL, but that's why I put a ;) in my post :lol: . However that's your mission if you choose to accept it!!
At least you have a railway and I'm envious of that, so don't hesitate to post some pics or vids, especially when you mention a viaduct. No matter how big/small or grand/simple I'm getting ideas from all the layouts I see.

Tom

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Re: Intentional bumps

Post by CSL » Thu May 24, 2018 4:57 pm

Well, I'm open to posting a few pictures but keep getting messages that the photo files are too large to attach - is that normal or am I doing something wrong? The FAQ section doesn't seem to cover it.

Pretty sure I've picked up that videos need to be linked from a YouTube account which I'm not really that keen on setting up.

It's probably my IT capability though!

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Re: Intentional bumps

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu May 24, 2018 6:32 pm


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Re: Intentional bumps

Post by CSL » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:06 pm

Tom the blacksmith:
I have posted some pictures in a new thread at
https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11905
Hope it's of interest, inspiration or possibly just a warning!

Tom_tom_go:
Thanks for the advice.

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Re: Intentional bumps

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:05 pm

:thumbup:

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Re: Intentional bumps

Post by Tom the blacksmith » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:33 pm

:hello1: :hello1: :hello1:

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Re: Intentional bumps

Post by CSL » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:31 pm

To continue the story with a re-post of a photo from my thread in Railways & Layouts, the approximate "natural stopping points" on my railway are as follows:

TRAIN RUNNING CLOCKWISE:
1. Loco nearly at exit from viaduct, whole train on viaduct.
2. Loco just past platform, some of train in station (sometimes it scores a direct hit with the train stopping in the station).

TRAIN RUNNING ANTI-CLOCKWISE:
1. Loco just off viaduct, train partly on viaduct.
2. Loco approaching station, usually near the solar light that is just about visible (this is where I think I should place an outer home signal!).

Obviously the exact locations are rather variable!

P1030116.JPG
P1030116.JPG (166.5 KiB) Viewed 4810 times
I originally laid out the railway thinking that the natural direction for running was anti-clockwise - the view of the train being best from the patio area (to the lower left of the photo); I had a risk-averse approach to facing points. However, it turns out that overspeed derailments - always a risk with manual steam, at least in my experience, and always on the viaduct curve - are most likely in this direction! And the facing point has never been a problem yet.

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Re: Intentional bumps

Post by Tom the blacksmith » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:10 pm

I've been thinking about this, in fact every time I run on my mates railway. I watch the loco comes to a halt, the momentum keeps the rake rolling for a bit and then they roll back slightly so all the chains are taut. The loco then has to raise enough pressure to not only move itself but whole rake, which I think causes the rocket effect. I wonder if you were going to do this on purpose it might be better to create a well leading to a peak (higher than overall track level) so the rake bunches up behind the loco if it stops. That way the loco has to move itself first and then each coach/wagon in turn which means it would require less pressure and the rake might brake the rocket effect.
I'm probably thinking about this far too much. :oops:

I think it must add to the interest though? Especially the unreliability of it so your never sure whether it will or won't pause.

On one of my mates lines my train nearly always stops outside a house with a little ol lady outside with a create of fish, it's now a running joke on running days where someone calls out that my driver has stopped to grab his tea.

Tom
Last edited by Tom the blacksmith on Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Intentional bumps

Post by CSL » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:33 pm

Tom the blacksmith wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:10 pm I've been thinking about this, in fact every time I run on my mates railway. I watch the loco comes to a halt, the momentum keeps the rake rolling for a bit and then they roll back slightly so all the chains are taught. The loco then has to raise enough pressure to not only move itself but whole rake, which I think causes the rocket effect.
On my line the drag is basically created by curves rather than gradients (still quite proud that I managed to get the track base as level as I did!) - hence the tendency for stopping places to be towards the ends of c.225 degree curves - so I don't see the taut couplings.

However, it is very obvious that the loco will usually start again if the weight (mass?) is momentarily taken off its coupler - sometimes by pushing just the rear vehicle up to the next one - and almost always then takes the whole train off again.

The other noticeable effect is that it usually won't stop on the next circuit, but it's wuite common to get into s cycle of pause - two circuits - pause - two circuits...

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